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Coronavirus - the new strain XI

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wacko said:
Are you AndrewC! ?
Anyway simple enough: I am implying that people who try to their job 'too well' and cross the 'powers that be' sometimes get retired early by 'the powers that be'.
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Well thank you for the clarification. Andrew gets stick on here, and your post could be read another way, ie that he took early retirement as a way to avoid disciplinary processes, which is another common theme when policing is discussed. So I’m glad we’ve cleared up that you weren’t implying that.
 
gavreid said:
Schools opening and the back to work drive caused the second wave, exactly as predicted in advance. Cases didn't rise ove the summer, not even when Leeds won the Championship and had a clusterf*ck of a public celebration, for example...

Initially (back in January) this thread had people who didn't grasp the seriousness of the threat the coronvirus posed, and quite understandably. Since then it has always been about the evolution of coronavirus, apart from the contributions of a few rightwing trolls trying to derail it.
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Stalinist.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
If we’re not to discuss the political response to Coronavirus, what do you propose this thread should cover? We do, as I’m sure you have noticed, talk about developments in treatments, vaccines, immunity and so on, not to mention friends and family and how they are affected. But to refrain from speaking about the wanton political mismanagement of this crisis would be to put a huge elephant in the room.
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It's about degrees. Firstly, it just doesn't seem to occur to some in here that pointing out that certain sections of society could behave better does not take away blame from the government at all. It doesn't have to be a case of either or. Secondly I for one would like to see more discussion around the research into the virus, its characteristics, is it changing etc. The last time I posted on the latter I got criticised as my post was, of course, not anti-government enough so I just can't be bothered any more.

It just seems that the thread has now been overrun with a political agenda and there are a certain group of posters of that persuasion who are just waiting to leap on anyone who posts something they consider as not being about blaming the government. I despise this government and not just because of the virus handling, they are everything I stand against, but I am also not blinkered to the fact that there is a certain percentage of society who are utterly self absorbed and think they are above the law, and it would not matter what messages they had received from government, they would still break the rules and do as they please. By pretending that is not the case all you are doing is making excuses for them or even enabling their behaviour!
 
The impact on the Black and Asian ethnic groups has been truly dreadful

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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08eef20fb28edc#block-5f6c64908f08eef20fb28edc
 
Tony L said:
Worth noting:

a) This is not an ‘NHS’ app, it is a Serco app, i.e. it is an app from a private company with links to the Conservative Party. Please can we not refer to it as ‘NHS track & trace’, this is ‘Serco Track & Trace’.

b) There is some doubt as to whether the app meets GDPR regulation. It certainly didn’t in its earlier development stages. I’m sure more clarity on this will come out in weeks to come.

As such, and given the Conservative Party’s obvious links to criminal data harvesting, targeting and manipulation (Leave.EU, Dominic Cummings, Cambridge Analytica etc) I’d personally think long and hard before installing it. The idea of track and trace is obviously a very good one, highly necessary now we have lost control of covid 19, and therefore welcome, so I’m torn on this, but my deep distrust of the bunch of crooks behind it means I won’t be going anywhere near it, but by saying that I’m sheltering so I’m not a target user. I can afford to reject it as I am not in contact with anyone.
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Wired ariticle on the new app here - it's not Serco. Track & Trace still is, sadly.
 
Two points- there seems to be a contest of opinion on the relative responsibility of government and the individual in making a success or failure of controlling this disease. While the behaviour of the individual can be seen to be obviously linked to spread (my earlier post about 8 students not wearing masks on a train making me angry), the ultimate responsibility lies with government.

Does government give clear and consistent messages? Is it seen to be acting in a competent manner and has it won the hearts and minds of the public? Do it’s members exhibit the behaviours they are asking the public to adhere to and are they speaking with unanimity or contradicting each other?

Secondly, we were told by leading public health specialists months ago that reopening the economy and freeing society up again was entirely dependent on the scrupulous execution of the so-called track and trace system put forward by government. Does anyone have any evidence this has even been thought through properly, never mind executed?
 
Hancock now threatening to lock universities down at Xmas and not allow students to return home.
 
TheDecameron said:
Two points- there seems to be a contest of opinion on the relative responsibility of government and the individual in making a success or failure of controlling this disease. While the behaviour of the individual can be seen to be obviously linked to spread (my earlier post about 8 students not wearing masks on a train making me angry), the ultimate responsibility lies with government.

Does government give clear and consistent messages? Is it seen to be acting in a competent manner and has it won the hearts and minds of the public? Do it’s members exhibit the behaviours they are asking the public to adhere to and are they speaking with unanimity or contradicting each other?

Secondly, we were told by leading public health specialists months ago that reopening the economy and freeing society up again was entirely dependent on the scrupulous execution of the so-called track and trace system put forward by government. Does anyone have any evidence this has even been thought through properly, never mind executed?
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The behaviour of some individuals is extremely problematic, without any question. Was there a public information campaign over the summer as recommended by Vallance - no. Did Cummings set the way - yes. Should Johnson have sacked him to set an example (cf Sturgeon) - yes. These failures have been catastrophic, together with the messaging around pubs, restaurants and holidays and the inconsistency around distancing and mask wearing. Joe Public believed he/she could get back to life as normal - not everyone, but those of that disposition. I think it comes down to understanding numbers though. A 1000 people on a beach or at a 'rave' (even if there were hundreds of them taking place) doesn't begin to equate with 12m school kids on the move, and their parents beginning to mix in workplaces again, or even 2.5m students moving to new locations, many in cities with increasing cases.
 
SteveS1 said:
This would be funny if the consequences were not so serious and if you were not so determined to misappropriate blame.......

- lockdown far too late.
- shake hands with COVID patients.
- "send the virus packing by Christmas".
- no testing let alone tracing.
- clear hospitals with no contol of which patients carry virus into care homes.
- lie about testing capacity, count tests when packets have been given to Yodel.
- Govt Minister Robert Jenrick ignore rules.
- Cummings ignores rule and simultaneously takes British public for cvnts with his explanation - backed by PM.
- fiddle figures to "achieve" spurious 100k daily testing targets when actual test results were more like half the claimed figure.
- try to open up schools, colleges, offices and associated transport with people in unavoidable close proximity, all still without any real ability to test and trace.
- encourage people out to eat and socialise - then quickly realise that puts the spread up almost instantly and engage reverse gear.
- ditto "get back to workplaces instead of working from home you unpatriotic lazy scum" followed by sickening crunch of another reverse gear in a matter of days.

So public not all compliant. Oh really?

With examples like Johnson shaking hands with patients and Jenrick and Cummings flouting rules without consequence - it's a tribute to the overwhelming majority that there is not more chaos already.

But yes, you keep worrying about a few students.
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You forgot the syphoning off of public funds into donors and friends pockets. Obsession with private companies leading to failed PPE delivery and other systematic failures that cost lives. Also appointing people with no experience (the Track and Trace team).

Also sidelining local Government and health care.

I'm sure there's plenty more we've missed out.

Sure, people are important in this, but leadership is also important.

Imagine if Johnson's hero had done this kind of thing in the war?

Outsource military strategy to a firm of auditors.

Appoint a failed head of a company as War minister.

Outsource Spitfire manufacture to a sweetie company with assets of £300 based in the Cayman Islands.

Syphon off public funds into the pockets of the Tory party donors and friends.

Commission weapons that fail to work properly.

Buy millions of gas masks that don't work.

(I have a feeling that the last two might be true!)

Stephen
 
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gavreid said:
The behaviour of some individuals is extremely problematic, without any question. Was there a public information campaign over the summer as recommended by Vallance - no. Did Cummings set the way - yes. Should Johnson have sacked him to set an example (cf Sturgeon) - yes. These failures have been catastrophic, together with the massaging around pubs, restaurants and holidays and the inconsistency around distancing and mask wearing. Joe Public believed he/she could get back to life as normal - not everyone, but those of that disposition. I think it comes down to understanding numbers though. A 1000 people on a beach or at a 'rave' (even if there were hundreds of them taking place) doesn't begin to equate with 12m school kids on the move, and their parents beginning to mix in workplaces again, or even 2.5m students moving to new locations, many in cities with increasing cases.
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Populism and its vices,

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A satirical poster Hogarth could have created.
 
wacko said:
Did you get early retirement ?
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You are far more likely to get an answer from me if I understand your point or reason for asking the question. FWIW I completed my 30 years service, and retired at the rank of Inspector. I was not sacked or dismissed, nor was I ever likely to be.

Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Andrew gets stick on here,
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Sometimes - but it’s more often that not caused by contributors asking further questions to clarify a point I may have not made clearly enough, or said contributors either jumping to a conclusion or not being transparent as to their agenda.
 
Bob McC said:
Now Hancock says we can only have sex in an established relationship...

https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-health-secretary-dances-around-casual-sex-ban-12080038
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What’s Boris to do?

“Coronavirus: Health secretary dances around 'casual sex ban”.
That’s a classic tell. Its going to cause as many problems for cabinet members as the N.Ireland Secretary admitting the government was going to break the law. I can see “Professor Lockdown Trousers Down” coming back to haunt them.
 
guey said:
Wired ariticle on the new app here - it's not Serco. Track & Trace still is, sadly.
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That is encouraging, it sounds a lot better than I’d been led to believe. I’d now use it if it was relevant to me (I’m sheltering, so not at risk).
 
Tony L said:
That is encouraging, it sounds a lot better than I’d been led to believe. I’d now use it if it was relevant to me (I’m sheltering, so not at risk).
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I'm trying to decide what I think about kids having this app and being allowed to keep phones on in school for this purpose. We had this letter on Tuesday

"I am contacting you to inform you that late this afternoon I was informed that a student in Year 7 has received a positive Coronavirus test result. After taking appropriate advice, I have taken the decision to ask all students in Year 7 to remain at home tomorrow (Wednesday September 23rd). This is a precautionary measure and allows us to clearly and carefully identify those students who are deemed as close contacts of the student and ensure we are able to communicate with those parents and carers as soon as possible. For those students who are not identified as close contact, school will resume as normal on Thursday 24th September"

In light of this cavalier approach, I don't think I can trust the school to decide what constitutes close contact - I thought that the whole bubble was deemed close contact. They just wouldn't know who was with whom at lunch or who played football etc etc whereas the app would inform us directly - if it's straight up...
 
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