Brexit: give me a positive effect... XI

[TheDecameron]

Where do you stand on brexit?

The data behind it also paints a picture: of pale, stale parochialism.

• A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.
  
  
• A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.
  
  
• Two thirds of those who considered themselves more English than British voted to leave; two thirds of those who considered themselves more British than English voted to remain.
  
  
• White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

 

[SteveS1]

place limits on such movement in order to protect their own socio-economic jurisdictions.

Can you expand on that, isn't this protectionism that you regularly rail against on a larger scale?

 

[eternumviti]

Removing it to sop those who don't like the competition or have no intention of taking the work, it is interesting to see free market Tories thundering on behalf of the closed shop. ET is Len Murray, I claim my £5. Our local heating engineer wants the freedom to get back to over-charging and turning up when he felt like it. Those damn Poles were too keen.

They're also no cheaper than the native variety now, at least in this neck of the woods. I have builders, electricians and plasterers working for me at the moment, they are all native, and work hard. The Polish carpenters are great, but they insist on necking a bottle of hooch between them before they start work in the morning. The Romanian painter is brilliant, when you can stop him from talking. His oppo, who is also his brother, isn't so good, and only talks, mainly about himself and his various physical attributes, but I like him and have known him for 25 years.

 

[Cav]

I think that's a fair summation. My point, that freedom of movement of the establishment trumps freedom of movement (or indeed, the freedom not to move) of people, remains. This has been established in ECJ case law.

I come at this thing from the point of view of believing that 'liberal' movement of people is generally a positive, but also in the importance of governments having the right (indeed the duty) to place limits on such movement in order to protect their own socio-economic jurisdictions.

The chant that freedom of movement is 'necessary' is simply an EU trope, bar within a full monetary and fiscal unit.

Not sure what your first paragraph means. Have you an example of the application of ECJ case law?

As for the rest, it seems you are a protectionist and would naturally dislike the freedoms the EU offers.

 

[eternumviti]

Can you expand on that, isn't this protectionism that you regularly rail against on a larger scale?

Protectionism must be a double-edged sword.

 

[SteveS1]

The Polish carpenters are great, but they insist on necking a bottle of hooch between them before they start work in the morning.

Are you sure it's the job they can't face without a livener?

 

[eternumviti]

The data behind it also paints a picture: of pale, stale parochialism.

• A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.
  
  
• A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.
  
  
• Two thirds of those who considered themselves more English than British voted to leave; two thirds of those who considered themselves more British than English voted to remain.
  
  
• White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

It must be truly shocking for you to see how many young, educated, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, black, Asian and Muslim people voted to leave.

 

[kabayiri]

So an admirable trait in your book or not? You seem to want it all ways. If they so something you like it's OK, if they do something you don't "they are all the same".

Why does it matter if I think the trait is admirable or 'all the same'? Let's be real about this. What I think has no bearing on current day politics.
I think that if you campaign for any given 'side' you go for it as hard as you can. There are no prizes for second place. That was as true for Remain as it was for Leave.
There are others whose job it is to regulate proceedings.

 

[eternumviti]

Are you sure it's the job they can't face without a livener?

Its one hell of a livener. They try to get me to join them!

 

[SteveS1]

Protectionism must be a double-edged sword.

Well the protectionism to say preserve an industry or a resource, I get even if I may not support it. I'm much less sympathetic to allowing those who have no intention of taking the jobs dictate the terms, or block those who will.

You often get such native protectionism trotted out with phrases like "points based immigration" which tends to totally ignore that they are seldom the vacancies most required to fill and also raises ethical arguments I have seen you make about plundering the talent of other countries, as opposed to those without work who would benefit most.

 

[NeilR]

Oh yes, even super Mario will not keep the EU afloat because there is no will to reform; we will take a hit but a lifeboat extracting us from disaster sounds ok to me.

would you care to put a timescale on this disaster?

You brexiters have been predicting disaster since the Euro inception at the turn of the century, but two decades later, it hasn’t happened.

So is disaster happening in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?

Give it your best shot.

 

[eternumviti]

There is plenty of evidence that EU FoM plunders the talent of accession countries, thus denying those countries of the people they need most to allow their economies to grow, and transfers it to the richest countries. Bulgaria has been virtually depopulated in some parts.

 

[Brian]

The data behind it also paints a picture: of pale, stale parochialism.

• A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.
  
  
• A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.
  
  
• Two thirds of those who considered themselves more English than British voted to leave; two thirds of those who considered themselves more British than English voted to remain.
  
  
• White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

Lol. Parochialism. From a hardline nationalist.

 

[eternumviti]

would you care to put a timescale on this disaster?

You brexiters have been predicting disaster since the Euro inception at the turn of the century, but two decades later, it hasn’t happened.

So is disaster happening in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?

Give it your best shot.

What do you consider to be a disaster? The Euro has been creating wastelands in parts of the med fringe for most of its existence. The 25% hit to the Greek economy was undoubtedly pretty disastrous for the people who were forced by the EU Troika to endure it.

 

[kabayiri]

Well the protectionism to say preserve an industry or a resource, I get even if I may not support it. I'm much less sympathetic to allowing those who have no intention of taking the jobs dictate the terms, or block those who will.
...

Do you believe that globalism should apply to labour, just as it should with goods and services?

 

[SteveS1]

Do you believe that globalism should apply to labour, just as it should with goods and services?

What do you mean?

 

[kabayiri]

What do you mean?

Well, should we be able to source labour from any part of the globe, or show a preference to EU citizens?
If it's basic skilled labour, you can find it much cheaper elsewhere, and you don't have to offer residency rights.

 

[SteveS1]

Well, should we be able to source labour from any part of the globe, or show a preference to EU citizens?
If it's basic skilled labour, you can find it much cheaper elsewhere, and you don't have to offer residency rights.

You mean like we always have and still do?

Not to be confused with the ease of such movememt that you can introduce when you have wider agreements on trade and services with groups or nations. What's your position on those such as say Priti Patel for example, who having benefitted from a welcoming environment handsomely themselves, then wish to pull up the ladder after them?

 

[stevec67]

The right and the ability are not the same thing.

Just like equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are not the same thing either. I have had just the same opportunity to become a very successful football player as David Beckham.I didn't have his ability, or indeed any desire to do so, which is why he is a multi millionaire and I'm not.

 

[ff1d1l]

Oh yes, even super Mario will not keep the EU afloat because there is no will to reform; we will take a hit but a lifeboat extracting us from disaster sounds ok to me.

Barron Colin....itching to tell us all about his system, his tweaks, his favourite tracks and what tracks he plays when he invites hotties back, to impress them.
Edit...not sure I've heard what gear Brain the Snail runs....could be I've missed it, Niam, maybe?