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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XI

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SteveS1 said:
Can you help me out here, you seem to saying that they voted for firemen to help put out a fire those same firemen actually ignited.

Let's vote the country poorer so that LA's can have more money? No economics were advanced in favour of Brexit - the best they offered was it won't be as bad as some suggest - which is not ageing well as we speak. The campaign was cultural conservatism of the worst kind. That doesn't make Cummings clever any more than it makes Trump clever. It just makes them prepared to foster and ecourage ideas and behaviour to achieve political ends in ways that others were not.

In the same way that a businessman stiffing suppliers and evading responsibilities thinks they are smart and those with higher standards are idiots or "losers".
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I didn't use the term clever. I said smart, which is akin to being street smart.
Politics is a dirty business, yes. When has it not been.
Even Prescott wasn't adverse to taking money off Chinese lobbyists to promote their interests.
 
^^ Youth unemployment in Spain, Greece and Portugal has been high long before the EU and could be even higher today without the EU.
Sweden has recent refugee immigrants.
Luxembourg only has 10 youths.
 
i_should_coco said:
Where do you stand on brexit?

Brexit-venn.png
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Two of those fit the Remainer profile! :D
 
eternumviti said:
But can it. Youth unemployment in some parts of the EU is startlingly high. Spain, Greece, Sweden, Luxembourg, Portugal, the figures really aren't good. Some of the blame for this must lie with the wretched Euro.
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Sweden is not in the Euro.
 
wacko said:
^^ Youth unemployment in Spain, Greece and Portugal has been high long before the EU and could be even higher today without the EU.
Sweden has recent refugee immigrants.
Luxembourg only has 10 youths.
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You can be pretty certain it would be a lot lower were it not for the Euro.

Last count there were actually 17.
 
wacko said:
Well of course it does unless you want every country in a silo like North Korea. And price of labour is not a deciding factor in many location decisions.
All 4 freedoms are equal and necessary.
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Cost of labour has been a deciding factor in many location decisions, and is one of the reasons why production has moved eastwards. Even German corporations have been building factories in the east. It was undoubtedly also a factor in Ford moving Transit production from Southampton to Turkey, with the help of a nice loan from the EU. And Turkey isn't even in the EU. Never quite worked that one out.

On reflection, perhaps now we're no longer in the EU, the EU will lend some money to VW to close its factory in, mmm.., say Slovenia, and open one in...Southampton?

I think not, somehow!

The 4 freedoms are necessary within a fiscal and monetary union. Freedom of movement of people is not outside of one.
 
kabayiri said:
I didn't use the term clever. I said smart, which is akin to being street smart.
Politics is a dirty business, yes. When has it not been.
Even Prescott wasn't adverse to taking money off Chinese lobbyists to promote their interests.
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So an admirable trait in your book or not? You seem to want it all ways. If they so something you like it's OK, if they do something you don't "they are all the same".
 
eternumviti said:
The 4 freedoms are necessary within a fiscal and monetary union. Freedom of movement of people is not outside of one.
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Freedom of movement is a considerable benefit to individuals, whether you think it's primarily a neoliberal device or not; it enables people to move away from their place of origin in search of something better, or just different. I think the question is whether, all things considered, people are better off with it, or without it.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Freedom of movement is a considerable benefit to individuals, whether you think it's primarily a neoliberal device or not; it enables people to move away from their place of origin in search of something better, or just different. I think the question is whether, all things considered, people are better off with it, or without it.
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Removing it to sop those who don't like the competition or have no intention of taking the work, it is interesting to see free market Tories thundering on behalf of the closed shop. ET is Len Murray, I claim my £5. Our local heating engineer wants the freedom to get back to over-charging and turning up when he felt like it. Those damn Poles were too keen.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Freedom of movement is a considerable benefit to individuals, whether you think it's primarily a neoliberal device or not; it enables people to move away from their place of origin in search of something better, or just different. I think the question is whether, all things considered, people are better off with it, or without it.
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I think that's a fair summation. My point, that freedom of movement of the establishment trumps freedom of movement (or indeed, the freedom not to move) of people, remains. This has been established in ECJ case law.

I come at this thing from the point of view of believing that 'liberal' movement of people is generally a positive, but also in the importance of governments having the right (indeed the duty) to place limits on such movement in order to protect their own socio-economic jurisdictions.

The chant that freedom of movement is 'necessary' is simply an EU trope, bar within a full monetary and fiscal unit.
 
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