Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Even accepting your characterisation of the May years, which seems rather wide of the mark, May was PM for 3 years and 11 days so who has wasted the past year? - oh yes, arch brexiteer Boris.......
Brexit: give me a positive effect... IIII
- Thread starter russel
- Start date
- Status
Even accepting your characterisation of the May years, which seems rather wide of the mark, May was PM for 3 years and 11 days so who has wasted the past year? - oh yes, arch brexiteer Boris.......
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It’s always everyone else’s fault rather than the very people pursuing Brexit. Johnson’s withdrawal agreement was an even worse deal than May’s- he sacrificed the integrity of the UK by placing the loyal subjects of Northern Ireland behind a border, against their will- something May said no British Prime Minister could agree to.
We’d love to join N.Ireland in a customs union with the EU but we’ll have to wait for the impending crisis in January. I just hope the Loyalist paramilitaries don’t kill anyone when they go after the new border machinery in the Province.
We’d love to join N.Ireland in a customs union with the EU but we’ll have to wait for the impending crisis in January. I just hope the Loyalist paramilitaries don’t kill anyone when they go after the new border machinery in the Province.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Why is my characterisation of the May years wide of the mark? May supported remain, afaik and there were plenty of remainers in Parliament when I was watching it all unfold on TV.
I doubt Johnson thinks he’s wasted the past year, it’s only a waste to him if he wants a deal and I’m not convinced he does. The EU could be playing right into his hands.
The LibDems campaigned ahead of the GE on revoking A50, did they not? Why didn’t they walk it? Whatever those 16.1 million voted for in Dec 2019 it wasn’t for revoking A50, or a second referendum. If people insist on the kind of calculation Nick posted lets be accurate about it.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Hugh, I’m not interested in blame, just the facts. If you exist in a blame culture that’s a problem for you, not for me.
What I’m doing is stating the fact that the chance was on the table to vote for a second referendum, or revoking A50 and people allowed it to pass them by. Do you dispute that?
I agree Johnson’s withdrawal deal was worse than May’s. It sends a message about the true intent of the ERG knackers in my opinion.
puddlesplasher
pfm Member
A no deal was always on the card as far as I can see. Boris doesn't know what he's doing, never did and never will. He's a rich DelBoy.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
The UK has left the EU. 2020 is an administrative convenience to ease the exit and to allow time to negotiate the terms of a continuing relationship. Any terms of membership we had previously are inconsequential despite what you hear from Brexiteers who claim that we are being stiffed by those sneaky Euro’s. They claimed they could have a new deal with all the advantages of the EU with none of the costs. They lied.
The EU are perfectly within their rights to say these are rules of our club, agree to them or don’t have a trade agreement. We don’t hold all the cards, we are negotiating from a position of weakness. All of this was predicted.
The forces behind Brexit have always wanted a no-deal Brexit. They will likely get it unless Johnson bottles it when he realises the consequences of a no-deal Brexit.
The EU are perfectly within their rights to say these are rules of our club, agree to them or don’t have a trade agreement. We don’t hold all the cards, we are negotiating from a position of weakness. All of this was predicted.
The forces behind Brexit have always wanted a no-deal Brexit. They will likely get it unless Johnson bottles it when he realises the consequences of a no-deal Brexit.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
"Eurocrat" Brian, doesn't that tell you something about the Express agenda? What are our negotiators? Heroes?
Where do you get this "both sides" stuff? It was our decision to leave without agreeing anything. If I state I'm going to buy your house, how far do I get if you are not selling? Do I then turn round and blame you for being inflexible?
A negotation is where both parties start from a position of good faith, flouncing out and expecting someone else to negotiate against their interest to make your decision justifiable is fantasy.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I agree with the bit in bold.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Of course ‘Eurocrat’ tells me the agenda of that rag, but we know that already, I asked a serious question. Basically, if negotiations are stuck on what is reported, what does it tell you about the EU?
Do you know what the section means that I mentioned earlier? What is the EU demanding?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
When I have a moment, I’m going to demonstrate the multiple occasions on which you did the very thing you’re denying in this post. Attributing blame to others is your forte Brian. It’s the denialism of Brexit where the locus of control is always with someone else.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
It tells me they realise it's not a bilateral negotiation, the decision that requires terms is a unilateral decision of the UK's. You'll get to the bit in a minute where you explain why the EU should make concessions against it's interest, to spare the blushes of people who lied to voters about what would be on offer if we took that decision.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Carry on, Hugh. I know you’re a guru with the search function, a bit like one of your old mates. I have little doubt I’ve used the word ‘blame’ on an internet forum, but I don’t use it as in a witch-hunt, but in terms of responsibility.
Blame has a very big whiff of simply being a witch-hunt for the sake of it and is not the same as responsibility.
Anyway, back to the bit you avoided. Do you dispute there was an opportunity to revoke A50, or to have a second referendum? Everyone even remotely interested in Dec 2019 knew what was at stake, the tories had to be defeated to stop brexit, helping them win that GE helps them deliver brexit. Sorry, but it’s just a fact.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Wait till we see what I come up with first. Verbatim of course, no interpretation or embellishment.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It’s the Sovereign Equals last stand. We left, we were one of 28 but an early joiner and a big economy but now we are equal to the entire EU27. That’s quite a meteoric rise in performance- enough to attract anti-doping attention.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
No, I won’t but I will ask my question again.
“Eurocrats refused to drop demands for control over fishing, business and state help for industry”?
What are these demands? You mentioned conceit earlier. That looks like a better example of arrogance and conceit if ever I saw one.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
No cartoons either? I’m honoured, Hugh. Truly. I didn’t know you cared so much. I’ll check back later. I blame the dog, she’s ringing the bell to go out.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It’s not a joking matter.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I know, she’s in season again, I have to be careful where I take her.
See you later, my friend.
Edit: By the way, I have agreed many times the primary responsibility (blame if it makes you feel better) lies with “the very people pursuing Brexit”, just that it also lies with those who helped the tories get into govt, who supported austerity and all the rest of the shite policies. I’m not sure why you argue about it.
Righto, I am off out now. Cheerio.
rbrown
I think therefore I think I am
Conceit has more than one meaning Brian. You’ve completely misunderstood the context.
tonerei
pfm Member
Jasus does anybody really care who is to blame for the Brexit vote. Does it matter. Simple fact is the Tories got the votes in the last election and any obvious remain Tory got shafted by their electorate. Reality is there are enough leave voters who want rid of Europe and they have elected the government to deliver it.
Remain side are not to blame there just isn't enough truly remain voters to win any contest. If the 'remain' Tories managed to get a better deal signed the BJ Tory government would have unpicked it once elected.
We just live in a wierd era were the leader of the opposition in Russia can be poisoned, US have Trump, China flexing its muscle at home and BJ romps home in a UK election. World self destructing.
Remain side are not to blame there just isn't enough truly remain voters to win any contest. If the 'remain' Tories managed to get a better deal signed the BJ Tory government would have unpicked it once elected.
We just live in a wierd era were the leader of the opposition in Russia can be poisoned, US have Trump, China flexing its muscle at home and BJ romps home in a UK election. World self destructing.
- Status