advertisement


Blind Test Shock - Everyting sounds the same.

Gaius said:
What I find strange is why those who believe everything sounds the same have any interest in being a member of a HiFi Forum.
Click to expand...

How many people 'believe' this? Some people believe that it's difficult to distinguish between cheap and expensive cables in a blind test, some people believe that competently-designed amplifiers should sound the same, because transparency is transparency, upon which it is impossible to improve, other people believe that room/speaker differences have far more impact on sound quality than cables or amplifiers. But I don't know of anyone on pfm who claims that 'everything sounds the same'.
 
Gaius said:
What I find strange is why those who believe everything sounds the same have any interest in being a member of a HiFi Forum.
Click to expand...
I wonder this also, why not just sit down & listen to their music instead if anything they read on here about differences in sound is of no use to them, I am thankful I do as I like to try different items of equipment now & again just for the pleasure of it, it a hobby for me & take great interest from it.
 
Yomanze said:
It also murders emotional involvement and subjective enjoyment of the music
Click to expand...

The purpose of ABX and DBT isn't to provide you enjoyment. The purpose of them is to determine if any differences are actually audible when emotional involvement and conscious and unconscious biases are eliminated.

and also subjects the mind to short-term auditory memory recall in a way that it just isn't needed in nature. After around 10 to 15 seconds those test sounds just fade away from memory... It's a clunky uncomfortable test that will change how a listener perceives things in any case. Listener fatigue and failure to spot differences quickly sets in when doing ABX tests even if changes are clearly identifiable when starting the test.
Click to expand...

This shows a misunderstanding of how ABX and DBT works, and is a rather old straw man. There is nothing in the methodologies that specifically constrains the listening periods or switching intervals.
 
Even my girlfriend, who could care less what gear i use in reality, can discern differences in cables, amps etc. Not only can she identify differences in kit consistantly, but also has very clear preferences if i ask her. That of course doesn't mean she cares that much, but i do.
 
Joe Hutch said:
But I don't know of anyone on pfm who claims that 'everything sounds the same'.
Click to expand...

I have asked for pointers to evidence that there are such people here, but (not unsurprisingly), the people who boast about their ability to "man up" go rather quiet.
 
Joe Hutch said:
How many people 'believe' this? Some people believe that it's difficult to distinguish between cheap and expensive cables in a blind test, some people believe that competently-designed amplifiers should sound the same, because transparency is transparency, upon which it is impossible to improve, other people believe that room/speaker differences have far more impact on sound quality than cables or amplifiers. But I don't know of anyone on pfm who claims that 'everything sounds the same'.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's as simple as this, as you know manufacturers tune their gear to sound a certain way, they usually have a house sound designed to sound as the designer wishes it to sound & believes it should sound, Arcam, smooth, rich, lively pretty much sums up the arcam sound, Naim, not too bothered with imaging & soundstaging & sacrifice outright detail in favour of drive & punch, there is nothing neutral about a naim amp, this is what makes the hifi world go round as everyone has different tastes & chooses accordingly, if this wasn't the case all speakers a certain size would sound identical but obviously don't due to the designers preference of how he thinks it should sound & chooses or designs drive units to suit.
 
gary yeowell said:
Even my girlfriend, who could care less what gear i use in reality, can discern differences in cables, amps etc. Not only can she identify differences in kit consistantly, but also has very clear preferences if i ask her. That of course doesn't mean she cares that much, but i do.
Click to expand...
My sister is exactly the same, she listens to music instead of equipment & measurements as it supposed to be.
 
Yomanze said:
Still, it was a fatiguing experience, something that the blind test advocates never talk about.
Click to expand...

Have you read any of the audio ABX/DBT standard recommendations? Of course the people running professional ABX and DBT tests talk about issues such as listener fatigue, need for controls, false positives and false negatives, statistical significance and confidence.
 
lrt1367 said:
It's not the first time julf has been contradicting in his views & I'm certainly not the first to say this,

Read the post, if he opposes it, which it states he does, then he thinks everything sounds the same, what else can he be saying, please explain, otherwise why even say anything to this remark.
Click to expand...

Do you have issues with reading comprehension? If you realize that you don't understand a posting, you should probably not comment on it (other than to perhaps ask for clarification).
 
Julf said:
I have asked for pointers to evidence that there are such people here, but (not unsurprisingly), the people who boast about their ability to "man up" go rather quiet.
Click to expand...

"Everything sounds the same" is simply the logical antithesis of "Everything matters". It is no more a serious debating position, than is 'everything matters'. Trying to pick a fight over this claim is a very good illustration of what the OP is on about.

I happen to disagree with his suggestion, BTW, because I think the best way is simply not to engage with an argument which is likely to derail, rather than enhance, a thread.
 
LRT1367, that's not quite what a said. I never listen for anything other than music, measurements and sounds mean f... all to me. When i say she doesn't care, it's because she is too busy with other things. She is perfectly capable of hearing differences and has preferences, but her priorities in life are not the same as mine.
 
Julf said:
Do you have issues with reading comprehension? If you realize that you don't understand a posting, you should probably not comment on it (other than to perhaps ask for clarification).
Click to expand...
The usual pomp,

My reading skills seem way beyond yours

I have no problem in that area thankyou my good man
 
lrt1367 said:
I don't think it's as simple as this, as you know manufacturers tune their gear to sound a certain way, they usually have a house sound designed to sound as the designer wishes it to sound & believes it should sound, Arcam, smooth, rich, lively pretty much sums up the arcam sound, Naim, not too bothered with imaging & soundstaging & sacrifice outright detail in favour of drive & punch, there is nothing neutral about a naim amp, this is what makes the hifi world go round as everyone has different tastes & chooses accordingly, if this wasn't the case all speakers a certain size would sound identical but obviously don't due to the designers preference of how he thinks it should sound & chooses or designs drive units to suit.
Click to expand...

Would that more posters would openly recognise the differences between house sounds and avoid the embarrassing over simplification of saying/assuming all HiFi is like what they have experience of and enjoy. Then there is the deafeningly different, night and day, heard by my neighbour who came round to ask what have you changed type it was different statements that are sometimes (often) hard to accept as posted.
 
Yomanze said:
Still, it was a fatiguing experience, something that the blind test advocates never talk about.
Click to expand...

That's because they by and large don't inflict it upon themselves. It is just a quest they place on others. It is very easy to pop up on a forum and set tasks for others, give evidence etc etc. Typing the post takes seconds. The enjoyment is somehow seeming in control and above others. Strange lifestyle but world is made up of all sorts. Quick glance at the post stats on these threads identifies the beast. :)
 
Julf said:
Have you read any of the audio ABX/DBT standard recommendations? Of course the people running professional ABX and DBT tests talk about issues such as listener fatigue, need for controls, false positives and false negatives, statistical significance and confidence.
Click to expand...

Fine and dandy. But these are not the tests rolled out on here to refute arguments, or support positions being taken.

What happens on here, mostly, is that somebody says "I used to be a subjectivist, but I did a few blind tests and convinced myself that the differences are imaginary." They then proceed to piss all over the OP's chips, on the basis of tests which have no more validity than those they deride.

It's tiresome, and spoils the enjoyment for many. Let's not kid ourselves this forum is a debating platform. For many, perhaps most, it's a conversation. And the sort of interruptions we're talking about here are like somebody barging into a pub conversation about football, and insisting the participants talk about rugby, because football is corrupt, rubbish and played by overpaid prima donnas.

That's an analogy, by the way. It is intended to illustrate the effect, rather than as a literal truth. I know some on here have difficulty with that notion, so I thought I'd explain, save some more arguments.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
"Everything sounds the same" is simply the logical antithesis of "Everything matters". It is no more a serious debating position, than is 'everything matters'. Trying to pick a fight over this claim is a very good illustration of what the OP is on about.
Click to expand...

It is not the claim itself that is the reason for the fight, it is the erroneous attribution of it that is the issue. Kind of an "are you still beating up your wife?" tactic.

I happen to disagree with his suggestion, BTW, because I think the best way is simply not to engage with an argument which is likely to derail, rather than enhance, a thread.
Click to expand...

I guess this thread is pretty good proof...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top