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Best cheap MM cart?

Tigerjones said:
Tony, what's your recommendations below £150?
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I don’t know really as it depends so much on the loading and capacitance of your phono stage. The arm on the Technics is at the lower end of medium mass IIRC so will be happy with most MMs. The ones I’d shortlist would be the Nagaoka MP-110, Shure M97XE and whatever AT is in the price range. Alternatively just a Blue stylus for your 2M Red. If you can justify spending more the MP-150 has the reputation of being the hot-spot in the Nag range.

My own findings with my MP-500 are that it doesn’t seem to care much about capacitance. I’ve tried 39pf and 220pf with my Quad 34, plus an unspecified ‘almost certainly a lot more’ with my Verdier valve preamp and it sounds great into all of them. By comparison the Ortofon 2M Black sounded awful into anything other that the modified 39pf card for the Quad and I ended up sticking my Verdier on the subs bench despite it being the better preamp as when I used it as it sounded so searingly bright with the Ortofon. As such I wonder wether Nagaoka’s ‘moving permalloy’ system is less picky than Ortofon’s or AT’s more conventional MM arrangement?

Basically any £150 MM is going to be pretty decent and should be happy enough in the SL1200 arm, but all bets are off unless you know the loading and capactance of the phono stage.
 
Tigerjones said:
This is where I fall down. I have no idea. My amps are either a JVC AX Z1010 and an old Sugden. I think I'll just try a Nagaoka or Audio Technica.
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If your 2m Red sounds over-bright or tizzy chances are an Audio Technica will too as they have similar capacitance requirements.
 
If the old Nagaoka MPxx series are anything to go by today (and I don't see much difference in the current specificatons), you may find the MP110 to be a bit ponderous in the bass relative to an equivalently priced AT, which err slightly to the leaner side. How much these tendencies present themselves has as much to do with what other bits are in the system, as they do with electrical loading, IME.

I had MP11 Boron and jumped to MP30. I also ran up and down the audio-technica and classic Shure lines more than once. The cartridge that offered the absolute most for the money in all areas was the AT140ML/AT440ML IME. Especially so, if, like me, you tend to actually listen critically right to the end of your LPs. In the Nagaoka line you'd be needing an MP500 to approach the same level of tracing accuracy. The MP110 has a .4 x .7mil bonded elliptical tip and really should be priced as such*. I've an antique Shure M75ED here that will kick its arse off the record!

As to capacitive loading requirements, one can suck it and see, and if there appears to be a HF peak drawing attention to itself, there is always the used phono stage market to pursue (or possibly minor surgery to the JVC?).

Having waxed lyrical over AT440ML, all of the recent Nagaoka chat had me digging out my old MP30 and I've been having a renewed affair with it. However, I can't see myself paying MP300/500 money when there exists cartridges at less than half the price that are way more than half as good. The MP11 wasn't one of them, I doubt that the MP110 is either.

* even audio-technica's $49. AT95E has a .3 x .7mil tip these days.
 
I have got used (about 100 hours) goldring 2300 in Your budget (PM me if interested)
But in my opinion, spend your money for new phono stage(project phono box s)
You will not be disappointed
 
I can almost guarantee that the phono stage in my Sugden is way better than a project phono box. I have no interest in buying another one.
 
Why don't you like the Ortofon 2M Red though (since I don't think you mentioned this)? I think what killer30 is saying (as we all are really) is that the screechiness is due to the cartridge loading, which a different (switchable) phono stage would allow you to address. I’d agree you might be putting the cart before the horse here. As has been said already, AT cartridges will almost certainly sound too bright if the Ortofon does. This isn’t the fault of those cartridges though.
 
Hi Bob,

The Ortofon through my JVC amp sounds too bright, a little screechy and rather fatiguing where previous carts haven't (Denon, Goldring). However, through the Sugden it sounds much better.

Problem is I need to revert back to the JVC in the near future so I'm looking for something that will work well with it.

I don't have the money for a new phono stage and if I did I'd probably just spend it on a 1042 instead.
 
I do actually have a spare phono stage somewhere, maybe I should try that but I ideally want fewer boxes not more.
 
John_73 said:
Another thumbs up here for the AT440mlb. I use one in a Technics SL-1200G and am constantly surprised how good it is. I used to own a Nagaoka 110 too, and the AT440mlb is a far superior tracker BUT needs to be loaded accurately or it can sound bright, but if you prefer a warmer sound at the expense of end of side tracking ability the 110 is the better bet.
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Is there any significant difference between AT440ml v AT440mla v AT440mlb or should we just grab the cheapest available ?

Thanks
 
I have AT 440 mlb on a rega and it sounds very good to me . The AT 95e is also great value , some people advocate using a paratrace stylus to improve it however have not experimented with this myself
 
TigerJones
I'm a tad worried about 'screechy' but could it be not quite aligned properlike?
If it's spot on then I'd say the most warm(ish) and musical cartridges around for that budget would be either the Goldring 2100 or the Nag 110.
 
My suspicion, given the same cart with the Sugden is liked, is that the JVC has >200pF on-board capacitance, thus causing a treble peak with the Ortofon. If I’m right it will do exactly the same with an Audio Technica as similarly they like very little capacitance at the phono stage. As such my recommendation would be for a Nagaoka or the Shure M97XE, both of which should a far flatter response in that context.

PS I’m pretty certain that Nagaoka make the current Goldring 2xxx range, so that may well be ok too. I’d be very tempted to take a punt on the 2300 mentioned upthread.
 
To each their own.

IME, assuming one can still be had for similar money, a nude micro line tip plus a bit of phono stage jiggery pokery will have one enjoying the rediscovery of their record collection for some time, rather than simply ironing out an annoying HF bump in response with another bonded elliptical (which could just as easily be done with the current 2M).

I do get the 'less boxes' estetic, however, it usually isn't too hard to find a nice spot out back for a smaller phono stage (or get someone to have a look see at the JVC).

The following YouTube shootout likely demonstrates the dire need for proper cartridge loading (and alignment) as much as it does the relative performance of these two cartridges under less than ideal operating/transmission conditions...

Hopefully this isn't against the AUP!
 
Craig B said:
To each their own.

IME, assuming one can still be had for similar money, a nude micro line tip plus a bit of phono stage jiggery pokery will have one enjoying the rediscovery of their record collection for some time, rather than simply ironing out an annoying HF bump in response with another bonded elliptical (which could just as easily be done with the current 2M).

I do get the 'less boxes' estetic, however, it usually isn't too hard to find a nice spot out back for a smaller phono stage (or get someone to have a look see at the JVC).

The following YouTube shootout likely demonstrates the dire need for proper cartridge loading as much as it does the relative performance of these two cartridges under less than ideal operating/transmission conditions...

Hopefully this isn't against the AUP!
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very similar? but the Ortofon seems more polished?
 
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