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BBMF Spitfire crash

Ok. Lets assume that the planes can be properly maintained and that they're safe to fly. Let's take that at a given. Reality very clearly shows that it is inevitable that these kinds of accidents will happen from time to time. How does everyone feel about there being no spitfires at all left to see? Because that is what's going to happen in the long run if we continue to fly these extremely rare parts of our history. The inevitable accidents will mean that one day the last remaining flyable Spitfire will crash and then the only remaining few will be in museums. Personally I'd much rather have the extra 5-10 or how many there are of them flying available for future generations to see and learn history from than pander to a small minority of the population tht get a kick out of seeing them actually fly. These planes are historically precious items that we should not be risking for the sake of a bit of entertainment.
 
tuga said:
Would you say that an contemporary F1 mechanic or driver is missing out on not playing with a Lotus 18? Or an Airbus mechanic not having fondled with a DC3?

I understand people's passion for old machines but that's all it is, a passion...
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So you live your life without passion?

You’re not painting a good picture of yourself in this thread.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
You’ve distorted what is actually in place.

Would I blat down hill in a classic bike that a couple of fishies have stripped, examined, and replaced everything that looks past its best, or repaired as necessary? Of course I would.

You’d be surprised by how little of these warbirds is anywhere near 80 years old.
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They're still extremely noisy and not particularly safe.
 
gez said:
Ok. Lets assume that the planes can be properly maintained and that they're safe to fly. Let's take that at a given. Reality very clearly shows that it is inevitable that these kinds of accidents will happen from time to time. How does everyone feel about there being no spitfires at all left to see? Because that is what's going to happen in the long run if we continue to fly these extremely rare parts of our history. The inevitable accidents will mean that one day the last remaining flyable Spitfire will crash and then the only remaining few will be in museums. Personally I'd much rather have the extra 5-10 or how many there are of them flying available for future generations to see and learn history from than pander to a small minority of the population tht get a kick out of seeing them actually fly. These planes are historically precious items that we should not be risking for the sake of a bit of entertainment.
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Again, not quite as it is.

The Spitfire that crashed will almost certainly be used as the basis for a rebuild.

They’re so valuable that it’s quite difficult to damage them beyond economical repair.
 
gez said:
Ok. Lets assume that the planes can be properly maintained and that they're safe to fly. Let's take that at a given. Reality very clearly shows that it is inevitable that these kinds of accidents will happen from time to time. How does everyone feel about there being no spitfires at all left to see? Because that is what's going to happen in the long run if we continue to fly these extremely rare parts of our history. The inevitable accidents will mean that one day the last remaining flyable Spitfire will crash and then the only remaining few will be in museums. Personally I'd much rather have the extra 5-10 or how many there are of them flying available for future generations to see and learn history from than pander to a small minority of the population tht get a kick out of seeing them actually fly. These planes are historically precious items that we should not be risking for the sake of a bit of entertainment.
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Also they proportion of people being entertained might be a lot slighter than those being bothered by it...
A few years ago there was a swarm of old warplanes flying over our place here in Oxford. Bloody noisy and totally unnecessary.
 
There will be a formal investigation now and no doubt recommendations will be made. Quite a bit of gun jumping going on in the fan comminity I think..,
 
tuga said:
Would you say that an contemporary F1 mechanic or driver is missing out on not playing with a Lotus 18? Or an Airbus mechanic not having fondled with a DC3?
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Not every RAF apprentice does get to work on the BBMF but the engineering used in a lot of those aircraft has a clear link to what is used in planes in the RAF inventory.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
Ok. List all the other crashes that the BBMF has suffered since its creation.

I’ll get my popcorn.
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I'm too busy screaming at the moron currently circling town in his recreational propeller plane... If ony it were a Hurricaine, at least it would be educational.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Not every RAF apprentice does get to work on the BBMF but the engineering used in a lot of those aircraft has a clear link to what is used in planes in the RAF inventory.
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Is the RAF inventory that old? That's very concerning...
 
Tony Lockhart said:
The only way humans can have no effect on the planet is to not be here.
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That's probably going to happen far sooner than people would like to believe, and not from any form of climate change either. Global population decline is going to happen, and when it does it won't take much before our entire system of survival will colapse due to not having enough younger generations to keep things going. Depending on which model you accept, world population will peak at somewhere between 8 and 10 billion and will plummet back down to 7 by 2100 and keep on falling at a far faster rate than it's been growing over the last 50 years.
 
Tony L said:
in context
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Well that's never going to happen. Flying over an airfield for demonstration purposes isn't even close to "in context" for WWII war planes. These planes are never going to be seen "in context" ever again.
 
George J said:
I do wish that these fantastic old aeroplanes were grounded for good.
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They fly subject to exactly the same regulations, inspections etc. as any brand new jet, civil or defense.
That plane was and will be again, just like Trigger's broom.

Not the case with old jets though - engine parts in particular will become unobtainable and the makers will not offer a maintenance service - the reason that Concorde is grounded.

Aircraft engines are essentially never made by aircraft manufacturers.
 
tuga said:
Is the RAF inventory that old? That's very concerning...
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If you know the general mechanical and engineering principles (and working on older more basic a/c is an ideal way to learn) then it is easy to apply to more modern a/c.
 
Tuga, I'm happy that some people have to put up with occasional temporary noise for the pleasure of others because to take the line to it's ultimate conclusion you'd have nothing ever happen in case one person was upset by it.

It's like they / them pronouns, most people couldn't give a rats ass about people's preferred gender, but we use them because it's barely an inconvenience, and makes the world a better place.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
Again, not quite as it is.

The Spitfire that crashed will almost certainly be used as the basis for a rebuild.

They’re so valuable that it’s quite difficult to damage them beyond economical repair.
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Ok, given that you clearly know more about that than I, I'll concede that point. But surely if that's the case eventually one has to start questioning if what is being watched is really an authentic plane or not? If in another 50 years time the only original part is the seat, then where is the actual value in them? I'd far rather be able to see an authentic original machine up close in a museum than some small spot of a plane up in the sky that has literally no original WWII part in it. At that point it's nothing more than a faximile of a spitfire.
 
Everyone associates the Hurricane and Spitfire with Merlin engines, but the Merlin evolved - the RR Spitfire has a Griffon engine (if memory serves, it certainly isn't a Merlin).

There are gazzillions of the engines around - they fit them to loads of kit in the US. The Merlin evolved into a UK tank engine and that was used until moderately recent times.
 
manicatel said:
Additionally, there is the thorny topic of Conservation vs Preservation.
To keep vintage aircraft certified airworthy, they may require non-original parts, as originals no longer exist.
There will be some aviation enthusiasts & historians who would rather keep a hull 100% historically authentically preserved in a roped off museum display, & others who would rather see it fly all be it with some non-original components on it.
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Exactly, this is what is really in question overall. Personally, while I totally understand (have even experienced first hand so I really do get it) the alure of seeing such plane fly. I don't think my pleasure would be anywhere as great if I knew that half the plane wasn't actually original. Thankfully I was able to see said planes fly long enough ago that very few of their parts would have been non original. Eventually there will come a time when any of the flying units will arguably no longer be spitfires any more, but copies of spitfires.
 
gez said:
Ok, given that you clearly know more about that than I, I'll concede that point. But surely if that's the case eventually one has to start questioning if what is being watched is really an authentic plane or not? If in another 50 years time the only original part is the seat, then where is the actual value in them? I'd far rather be able to see an authentic original machine up close in a museum than some small spot of a plane up in the sky that has literally no original WWII part in it. At that point it's nothing more than a faximile of a spitfire.
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Bear in mind that, as far as I can remember, our bodies have changed every cell over the course of seven years. It really is only our ‘soul’ that remains.

Restoration companies try to use as much of the original aircraft as they can. That can be difficult when the originals weren’t designed to last a long time in the first place. They were thrown out of the factories as fast as possible, sometimes with huge differences in overall length etc.
Then we asked the incredible women of the ATA to fly them!
 
canonman said:
A bit more than a handful. I recall going to a BoB event at Goodwood not too long ago. Absolutely rammed with people, traffic gridlocked. In fact there were 32,000 there.

Honoured to have met a Memorial flight Spitfire pilot at White Waltham after he flew in for an event. His absolute enthusiasm for the aircraft was nice to hear..
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32,000 in the context of the UKs population is far far far less than " a handful". 0.05% in fact.
 
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