tuga
Legal Alien
I have not been referring to this particular instance, as you already know having discussed the issue of recreational proppeler planes previously.
BBMF Spitfire crash
- Thread starter antinchip
- Start date
I have not been referring to this particular instance, as you already know having discussed the issue of recreational proppeler planes previously.
tuga
Legal Alien
Why do you find it disappointing that my teenage sons and many other younger people have not or will never see Starfighter, Lightning, Vulcan or whatever?
Sad turn of events, but I met an old racing driver who has a lovely vintage 50s/60s Ferrari race car, on asking about him about the risks of racing it, he was very vocal. 'Its a racing car built for racing, I would rather see it in a crumpled ball of flame with me in the middle than sat in a bloody museum in silence, a racing car sat endlessly in a museum is a dead racing car'. I suspect a pilot who has managed to get himself into a spitfire is probably closer to that mindset than parking it in a museum.
canonman
pfm Member
A bit more than a handful. I recall going to a BoB event at Goodwood not too long ago. Absolutely rammed with people, traffic gridlocked. In fact there were 32,000 there.
Honoured to have met a Memorial flight Spitfire pilot at White Waltham after he flew in for an event. His absolute enthusiasm for the aircraft was nice to hear..
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I’m guessing Tony would be referring to the incredible experience.
The Lightning and Starfighter look incredible even stood still, and back in the 70s when airshows were still exhilarating, the sight of them coming at you at transonic speed, silent until level with you on the runway, at low level, then BANG! And up they’d go, the Lightning often going to 30,000ft almost vertical, ground rumbling below your feet.
Astonishing things. And here’s the thing: seeing those aircraft was a large part of my reason for joining the RAF.
I’ve done starter crew on a Mosquito.
Just thought I’d drop that one in
Wolfmancatsup
Empire State Human
I read about this yesterday. At some point recently there were sixty airworthy Spitfires in the world, thirty of which are in the UK. There’s apparently a total of 240 surviving if static display examples are included.
Tony L
Administrator
It is all part of human history, science and technology. You may as well argue that people shouldn’t be able to visit the pyramids, play the music of Bach, study the works of Turner, Rothko or whatever.
As the world collapses back on the brink of fascism, accepting genocide etc it is increasingly essential that we find and fund better ways of teaching and articulating our past in a desperate attempt not to repeat it. As I say I do have issues with the Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight as the imagery has been subverted and distorted by fascists like Britain First, Farage etc, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the BBMF and everything to do with the vile political climate of today.
My view is we need to make the message even stronger, drill the point home that these were the tools of anti-fascism. We also need to confront the brutal history of Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and other dark times in living memory. We can not afford for things to be forgotten and brushed under the carpet. Even more so now Israel are in the midst of a horrific genocide even firebombing helpless refugees in tents last night. We need to look unflinchingly at this stuff if we are ever to evolve. Any tool that helps explain it to following generations is a good tool
There is also the technological angle. Love it or hate it a lot of real technological shifts occur at times of war, stuff that later has much use in peacetime. I’m a computer geek amongst other things and vast amounts of that stems from wartime development.
The BBMF and similar flights are educational tools. I fully support education. I’d like your kids to have the very best education possible as they have to deal with a fundamentally broken future.
tuga
Legal Alien
That's a bit subjective, though.
My kids used to enjoy watching the flights coming in from our living room window at a very young age, with Lisbon airport being so close to the city centre. My eldest's first word was airplane. They knew many of the airline logos and some of the aricraft models. Today they have no interest in planes.
Maybe they have no interest now, but the had the opportunity when it mattered at a young age which is great and that is what mattered (having the opportunity to see something and develop an interest, you don't have to follow everything through, but its important to be able to have a start). I'd like everyone to have that opportunity and be able to make their own decisions.
tuga
Legal Alien
You may argue but it might be a tad harder to compare art and architecture with machines. We have loads of those lying around, they keep evolving and becoming more profuse.
When I visited Kunming in the late '90s the local government was razing the old Hutong-like brickwork neighbourhoods and replacing them with modern apartment buildings in new wide streets with proper lighting, rainwater drainage and sewage systems. I found it a bit shocking and over the top but they did keep a few historic landmarks. From a purely rational perspective it makes sense to rebuild cities with improved sanitary conditions, more comfortable and energy efficient buildings and improved pedestrian and vehicle traffic but placemaking is a bit trickier than that.
tuga
Legal Alien
When we moved to that apartment I used to wake up to the sound of the first flight which took place at 5AM, and often was never able to get back to sleep.
I wish they had not had that opportunity, the noise was annoying and it would not have made any difference to them.
Tony L
Administrator
I went to a few airshows as a kid. This back in the days before modern safety legislation so they flew stuff fast low and loud across the spectator area. I’ve seen Lightnings, Starfighters etc in a very direct and close perspective. I’ve a very strong memory of a Lightning flying low and then accelerating vertically upwards right over the crowd. Just visceral. Staggeringly loud, the ground shaking. I‘d only have been 9 or 10, but it stuck with me. The contrast between astonishing technology and tools of death and destruction started to sink in. I think I ended up with quite a balanced and nuanced perspective. I’d file it as good education.
gez
pfm Member
Of course that's not what he's saying. There's a huge difference between doing any of those activities with modern machines in good working order and doing so with 80 year old equipment. Would you cycle downhill on a bicycle where there was a realistic posiblity that the brake cables could snap when you come to use them? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't.
Much as I personally would love to see a spitfire fly again in person, I have also seen programs about just how difficult old planes etc are to maintain. The skills literally don't exist any more in some cases to replace/repair some of the bits and systems that are now prone to failure.
Therefore I agree, it's time to call it a day and put them in museums where people can get up close to them and see them in detail.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
33000 alone went to one event at Duxford last year to see old planes fly. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-66837568
If you're talking about the BBMF, they appear at numerous events so we're talking tens, if not hundreds of thousands watching a year; it will almost certainly be advertised and a draw for many of those events.
BBMF Display Schedule 2024 Dates, Venues, Timings - Military Airshows News & Press Releases.
www.military-airshows.co.uk
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Not least of which teaching the next generation of RAF mechanics and engineers.
tuga
Legal Alien
Would you say that an contemporary F1 mechanic or driver is missing out on not playing with a Lotus 18? Or an Airbus mechanic not having fondled with a DC3?
I understand people's passion for old machines but that's all it is, a passion...
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
You’ve distorted what is actually in place.
Would I blat downhill on a classic bike that a couple of fishies have stripped, examined, and replaced everything that looks past its best, or repaired as necessary? Of course I would.
You’d be surprised by how little of these warbirds is anywhere near 80 years old.
Last edited: