Audiophiles and Snake Oil...

[chartz]

I saw the claim for reduced bit error but no proof of it, even back then, the opposite was true as regards BLER. I also vaguely remember some graphs showing tiny jitter reductions, but no proof of audibility.

If it worked cds would have green edges.

My first gen Philips CD300 has green LEDs that illuminate the whole CD. It is dated mid-1983.
I think it was for aesthetic reasons but some people thought those Belgian engineers did it for a technical reason... you know the rest of the story.

 

[mattgbell]

Well, that may depend on the lighting, the distance, the colour, whether it is moving or stationary and, if moving, how quickly perhaps? Things that might be thought of as second order factors, but which may directly affect the perception of the object. So, not unlike noise, phase relationships, timing, perhaps, in an audio signal.

I’d be surprised if that’s what cerealkiller meant. Surely he meant that a sphere and a circle are so similar that it’s hopeless to ask people to distinguish between them under reasonably benign conditions.

 

[Stunsworth]

Not your best analogy, since a circle and a sphere will be told apart by anyone with functioning binocular vision.

Unless the original is being reproduced on a piece of paper.

 

[narabdela]

These discussions always remind me of those regarding religion - or more recently perhaps Brexit.

Well yes, Brexit threads are Off Topic's equivalent of cable threads. To be fair, I don't think many participants seriously expect to convert their opponents, but perhaps a little mutual understanding may be achieved?

Religion and Politics are fuzzy edged subjects really. I may disagree with other points of view, but I can respect them.

...but audiophile snake oil? Sorry. No can do.

 

[mattgbell]

you could just draw a sphere. Not difficult.

Unless the original is being reproduced on a piece of paper.

 

[Stunsworth]

you could just draw a sphere. Not difficult.

But it's not a sphere - it only has two dimensions, it's an optical illusion.

 

[Cereal Killer]

@Stunsworth - absolutely my point. Optical illusion are just are profound to our senses as auditory ones, yet being visually we accept them.

The sphere could also be seen as a concave, just take a look at Anish Kapoor's sculptures or a typical Esher-like graphic / painting

 

[Alex S]

To me it looks more like light at the end of a tunnel. Unlike this thread.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Well, that may depend on the lighting, the distance, the colour, whether it is moving or stationary and, if moving, how quickly perhaps? Things that might be thought of as second order factors, but which may directly affect the perception of the object. So, not unlike noise, phase relationships, timing, perhaps, in an audio signal.

All absolutely relevant to all our senses.

 

[mattgbell]

@Stunsworth - absolutely my point. Optical illusion are just are profound to our senses as auditory ones, yet being visually we accept them.

The sphere could also be seen as a concave, just take a look at Anish Kapoor's sculptures or a typical Esher-like graphic / painting

oh so now we’re on to optical illusions, are we? Some industrial-strength straw-clutching going on here.

Anyway, I’m off for a big molar extraction, which will be marginally more unpleasant than this thread.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Got nothing to do with straw-clutching, try understand, its just a matter of perception; Like asking what colour is red.
ALL our senses are subjective assessments of our immediate surrounds.

Another example; how much salt do you like on your eggs?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Its just what it is, its like asking someone if they see a sphere or a circle.

you could just draw a sphere. Not difficult.

You haven’t drawn a sphere, you’ve drawn a circle. That’s the point. It may be perceived as a sphere, or the viewer may look beyond the attempt to deceive the senses, and perceive a circle. So as mentioned upthread, perception is subjective.

 

[Joe P]

I though Matt drew an emu egg. Shows what I know and just how subjective perception is.

Joe

 

[Cereal Killer]

http://anishkapoor.com/907/innocent-blood

 

[Cereal Killer]

Where are these circles?

 

[Roger Adams]

]

Horrible lack of depth to the image. Very black and white too - lacking colour.

 

[Guest432]

Only on pfm can a thread go off on such a tangent that the argument becomes whether a circle is a circle or not.

Surely this breaches the AUP for spherical arguments now.

 

[mattgbell]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't reply to the above. The molar extraction was rather messy and I'm in a foul mood.

 

[Colin L]

The audio nihilist says nothing makes any difference.

Power cables make no difference
Interconnects and speaker cables make no difference
Streamers make no difference
Equipment or speaker supports make no difference.
Everyone with a different view is mug, has too much money, or is deluded, an audiophool.

They are happy in their world but it’s not one I live in.

QUOTE="chartz, post: 3876242, member: 29215"]I’ve been experimenting for almost 40 years. All the above is true but equipment support is indeed essential for turntables and perhaps for speakers but I have a very thick and solid floor.
Just a no-nonsense approach. If I can’t hear any difference then to me there isn’t any and that’s alright.[/QUOTE]

My first gen Philips CD300 has green LEDs that illuminate the whole CD. It is dated mid-1983.
I think it was for aesthetic reasons but some people thought those Belgian engineers did it for a technical reason... you know the rest of the story.

Chartz, you've been experimenting for 40 years, a technical expert, but don't know that Philips is Dutch, not Belgian?

 

[chartz]

Yup, but the early CD players were designed and manufactured in Belgium Sir. Lucky for you I am not touchy because that was rather petty.

My CD300.