Roog
pfm Member
I'm curious, it seems relevant to me, and no I have not read the whole thread.
Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?
- Thread starter beammeup
- Start date
I'm curious, it seems relevant to me, and no I have not read the whole thread.
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
This seems to settle the question. I have two points of puzzlement though:
1. Why has this thread continued for 45 more pages?
2. What happened to the post from Purité Audio that gave this link originally: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...twork-switches-make-a-difference-video.20316/
tuga
Legal Alien
That is the thing: once you get rid of most distortion sources you are finally listening to the signal/music.
The artifacts I was describing are slightly to barely audible in most cases. That is why I wrote that ultimately it's down to the end user to decide if it's worth trying to address them. And they can be made worse or negligeable depending on the partnering amplification and electronics.
One thing that in my view seems to be common to most artifacts we find in digital audio is that they generally produce tiredness/discomfort in long listening sessions.
Then there's the "haze" which I would expect most to agree that it is something worth dealing with, but again the effect is slight.
Fourlegs
Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables
Nope, I'm not talking about DSP or whatever from different servers, players, whatever. No need to confuse the question. Hence the phrase, all things being equal, that means the same, constants, which one needs to be able to isolate the variable/effect. Simple experimental procedure.
With everything the same apart from the network switch changing, play a piece of audio, capture the output. Then, with not changing anything else, change the switch, play the same piece of audio, capture the output. Subtract the first capture from the second and post the graph or table of variance here.
And do that at least ten times, a small sample, but hey, better that doing it just once!
Honestly that simple...go for it...
Oh, and record the system in test, the configs the devices, etc so the test is repeatable.
This is all fine but what I seem to have missed is why I should want to do any of it if I am perfectly happy and content with the audible results of what I have done to my system. The system sounded great before but to my mind it sounds even better now. End of really except that if you are ever in the area you are most welcome to pop in have a listen and a natter and maybe even some local Stilton cheese..
Isn't it bad form to link to another Audio forum? Seems reasonable to me.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
@Fourlegs, No one is stating that you should do anything to your hifi that you don't want to do. If you'd rather follow flights of fancy than good engineering, have at it.
But when someone posts the question, do audiophile switches really work, then you can expect to see some people chipping in with ideas and opinions based on science and measurement just like you get people chipping in saying they like what they hear, based solely on listening.
But when someone posts the question, do audiophile switches really work, then you can expect to see some people chipping in with ideas and opinions based on science and measurement just like you get people chipping in saying they like what they hear, based solely on listening.
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The end of the day if you want to spend thousands on a switch go for it, adding something else in the chain, especially when it has mains going into it is probably going to change the sound, as even the very best power supply will still inject noise and so change things. Now also do these also colour the sound ? And if so is this what you are hearing?
For me I tried a melco S100 and to me this made it worse, so then added a better power supply, still worse but not as bad, so that went back.
Next the EtherRegen with better power supply, couldn't notice any difference, so sold it on.
So for me switches don't seem to work, is that me, my ethernet or my streamer? Don't know but I have tried and I would just say, if you can try one for free then give it a go, as why not. Just don't buy anything like this, especially the expensive ones without trying first.
I do believe that once you have got your wallet out and paid for something you are more likely to convince yourself that its better, when actually there is no gain and at best just different or even worse. Being able to send back for free does leave your brain open more and more likely get the true results.
But even after doing all this if you like what a switch is doing in your system then enjoy it and for the rest go enjoy the extra money in your wallet.
Cheers dunc
For me I tried a melco S100 and to me this made it worse, so then added a better power supply, still worse but not as bad, so that went back.
Next the EtherRegen with better power supply, couldn't notice any difference, so sold it on.
So for me switches don't seem to work, is that me, my ethernet or my streamer? Don't know but I have tried and I would just say, if you can try one for free then give it a go, as why not. Just don't buy anything like this, especially the expensive ones without trying first.
I do believe that once you have got your wallet out and paid for something you are more likely to convince yourself that its better, when actually there is no gain and at best just different or even worse. Being able to send back for free does leave your brain open more and more likely get the true results.
But even after doing all this if you like what a switch is doing in your system then enjoy it and for the rest go enjoy the extra money in your wallet.
Cheers dunc
Zombie
pfm Member
You're not suffering from cronic expectation bias. All is fine.
chiily
PFM Special Builder
Well that's cool with me, knock yourself out, but don't cite the network switch phenomena as fact unless there some measurements; opinion and hearsay until then, which is probably how all great scientific discoveries are started, only they went on and generated some hard evidence to back the observation. With the network switch swap it is going to need some repeatable evidence to back up opinion.
My apologies if I'm a little hard over on this, but I'm not keen on the modern manner of opinion being cited as fact just cos someone says it; echo chambers of misinformation.
"Say it enough times and it must be true.", doesn't work well in the world of science and there's a fair chunk of science in audio reproduction.
Ho hum
chiily
PFM Special Builder
Well, if they are audible, let's see the FFT of them.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
It’s a generalisation about aftermarket products which is too wide a catchment area. The discussions about whether the original designers didn’t think of it, price points in the market etc have been exhausted and the discussions about whether all aftermarket products rely on the imagination and/or expectation bias of the purchase has been beaten to death.
If you have specific questions about network switches deployed for audio purposes then they’ve probably also been answered, the answers have been refuted, etc etc.
Hope this helps
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Why do you need to resort to cheap dismissive jibes like this in bold, when you’ve demonstrated that you’re also capable of engaging in adult conversation?
People actually hearing actual differences is not a case of flights of fancy. I fear that the fantasists are those who refuse to expose themselves to the risk of listening to stuff and hearing a difference they couldn’t hitherto explain, but would rather seek the comfort of a good old theory regardless of whether it stands up to practical tests.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
If it’s audible, you can hear it. It’s a dictionary definition thing. Come round for a cuppa.
Fourlegs
Trade: WAVE High Fidelity digital cables
As I have previously mentioned, I suspect low level but still audible IM distortion artefacts as opposed to frequency response variations or overlaid audio band noise. But no, I am not going to pursue that mainly because I don’t have the right kit to measure it. Do you?
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Unless there is some 'bad blood' in a particular case for some cause that seems an unnecessary norm. Often when I was more active in audio discussions on AudioKarma I and others would reference resources available elsewhere, which was often quite helpful.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Are you suggesting the factor which differentiates facts from assertions is the presence or absence of measurements? Or did you mean the presence or absence of evidence?
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
This is a fair point with which I have sympathy.
I think the forum in question has a deserved rep for being a bit of a cult which, to parallel a view expressed recently about subjectivism, has become an echo chamber where dissenting voices are quickly killed off and measurement is the one true god which must be praised. That’s fine if that’s your religion, but bringing it here isn’t always welcome.
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Sounds to me like not welcome to some and welcome to others. Which is a lot like 'not always welcome,' as you said, so we agree!
chiily
PFM Special Builder
If you capture the before and after signals and send them to me