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Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

TheFlash said:
Too quick on the keyboard there: the post to which I was responding which was about comparing the digital files.

Apology accepted.
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No apology required - you misread the context of the post you quoted (nothing new there - you have form.. ;) )
 
andrewd said:
But you need to get the output from the DAC back to digital with an A to D converter which has clocks and power supplies of comparable quality to those in the DAC. Such a device would likely cost 10’s of thousands of pounds. Rob Watts has been working on one for years.

You would need to do the comparison at a far higher bit rate than than the original digital file. Something like 768 kHz/24b.
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I could go into the design of the DAC's frequency range and dynamic range needed for the experiment, but I guess that would not be read. However, the inexpensive E1DA Cosmos ADC looks quite good enough dynamically and I would design the experiment to give useful results with its frequency range (audio up to 192 kHz).

On dynamic range I will make one comment. Presbycusis. The published human hearing threshold curve is measured on a young population. On average they have 126 dB (21 bits) between the loudest most domestic loudspeakers will produce and their hearing threshold at its best point. If you are over 40 (I suspect the majority here are) you can forget at least 20 dB of that and 30 dB by age 60. So that ADC looks well over-qualified to me. I do wonder how old Rob Watts is compared to what he claims.

If it pleases someone not so young to buy a state-of-the-art DAC, there's nothing wrong with that but such a DAC is way better technically than actual hearing threshold if you have passed beyond your 20s.
andrewd said:
If you are talking of comparing the digital output from the switches, that argument was dismissed on page one of this thread. No-one is suggesting that the different switches output different data in the digital domain. In other words they are all bit perfect.
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There are two digital domains in the discussion now. The one before the DAC which gets converted to analogue and that's where purportedly audible levels of intermodulation happen. Then that analogue signal including the intermod. products gets digitized with and without the switch in place. It's a different digital domain but unfortunately the thread seems to have developed from one from which I was looking for enlightenment into write-only. :(
 
miktec said:
Double blind testing = 'less faff' than recording the output twice ???

You really are avin a larf :D
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Except that I do not have a computer anywhere near the dac and all my computers are desktop ones so moving one them is a considerable amount of faff.
 
John Phillips said:
If it pleases someone not so young to buy a state-of-the-art DAC, there's nothing wrong with that but such a DAC is way better technically than actual hearing threshold if you have passed beyond your 20s.
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Oh dear, that of course is just complete rollocks and absolute tosh. There is so much more to sound quality than what is in the higher frequencies.
 
beammeup said:
Can anyone explain the need for audiophile network switches when streaming from Qobuz or the likes please?

I thought all streaming was done over the TCP/IP protocol to the streamer which ensures perfect data delivery into the streamers buffer through any ordinary competent network switch designed for that role.

There may well be a need for these tweaked switches to improve sound - but I just need to understand the logic if anyone here can help.
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I think it’s about time we all thanked @beammeup for his stimulating opening post. Who would have thought!? :)
 
Peculiar that the AN crowd praise 1 m balanced connections, but at the same time ignore the common rejection in a simple CAT5 cable and the error correcting protocol. Ten years ago USB was the rage, then came I2S, now it seems coax is making a revival. I mean, persons buy a new DAC and the unit hasn't even arrived yet and they produce an endless rant on forums (that hate audioscience) about cables, clocks, isolators, LPSUs, I2S, switches and canned unicorn farts to improve said DAC.
It seems like a mild form of some capital letter combination diagnose. But fun to join in sometimes.
 
the switch scenario is easy to test especially if your are running squeezelite , as everybody seems to trust their ears simply use the -b squeezelite option to enable a larger stream and output buffer that can cache the whole of the track. It takes a few seconds after pressing play to fill the stream buffer then just pull the ethernet connection, the track will continue to play without any network activity or possibility of ‘noise’ being injected via the ethernet connection.
 
Why bother, Amir on ASR and another online tech site has already done the connected and unplugged switch test and measurements.

No difference between runs. No change in noise, imd, jitter, thd, or dynamic range, and no proof from any other side of the opposite outcome.
 
@chiily ’s test could be validated with controls. E.g. take two recordings without the switch (A1, A2) and two with (B1,B2). Then take diffs of A1/A2 and B1/B2 to get a baseline measurement. Then take the diff of A1/B1 (and/or A2/B2) and compare the A/B diffs against the A/A. Am I crazy? Too much of a faff?
 
sq225917 said:
Why bother, Amir on ASR and another online tech site has already done the connected and unplugged switch test and measurements.

No difference between runs. No change in noise, imd, jitter, thd, or dynamic range, and no proof from any other side of the opposite outcome.
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Well if only you’d mentioned this earlier! No need for discussion, definitely no need for listening, no need for switches, case closed. I think I might sign up to that site, it seems to be rigorous, evidence-based, comprehensive and popular. Time to close this thread, obviously. Thanks for highlighting.
 
sq225917 said:
I'm going to repurpose one of those skeletons hand moneybox toys into an ethernet cable disconnecting device. Seems like perfect solution for a cash grab and network improvement accessory.
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Go for it. At least you won’t need to change your avatar!
 
booja30 said:
@chiily ’s test could be validated with controls. E.g. take two recordings without the switch (A1, A2) and two with (B1,B2). Then take diffs of A1/A2 and B1/B2 to get a baseline measurement. Then take the diff of A1/B1 (and/or A2/B2) and compare the A/B diffs against the A/A. Am I crazy? Too much of a faff?
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Possibly. Good effort though! :)

Don’t forget though that such a test, never mind such a validation, is completely pointless as it is incontrovertibly an actual fact that a difference will be neither evidenced nor heard. I heard this from a guy in a pub so it’s definitely true.
 
Haha, @TheFlash in top tongue in cheek piss taking form. Almost as good as the Guanciale (pig cheek, see what I did there) that we cooked a couple of nights ago for our spaghetti carbonara (and that was of the highest order).

Obviously they are deluded but I have just been reading elsewhere of new owners delight with their Innuos PhoenixNET switches. If only they had stumbled across this thread prior to purchase everything might have turned out quite differently for them (or probably not)! I suspect they maybe they did read this thread but carried on with their purchases regardless.
 
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