London Lad
pfm Member
PS, I do agree that a change may or may not be an improvement.
AR Sound
- Thread starter bob atherton
- Start date
I'm with Rasher on this one. I think the analogy with photography is quite good, and if you are into photography you can appreciate the fact that there is no camera that reproduces the reality with 100% precision. Each camera and each lens has it's own way to reproduce the colours, details, contrast etc. There is also a long way from the reality which you see in the viewfinder and the final print (which is ultimately a piece of art, or not). And better lens does not always result in a better picture / piece of art. The strongest compositions in the photography are actually always very simple. And the best photographs are always interpretations of the reality.
I think at the end it's back to each own's purpose in owning a hi-fi system. There is always a risk that upgrading the components and cables all the time with the aim to get better sound may become a purpose on it's own. I'm not arguing that a better resolving system would not deliver more pleasure from listening to the music, of course it may. But sometimes you just need to find the right balance and stop tweaking the system and start enjoing the music. And if you think this way, what really counts is not whether you can extract every little detail from the recording, but rather the overall enjoyment and involvement you are experiencing.
What I like so much about Naim sound is that it is rather addictive and makes you stick to your listening chair and finish the track, or the whole CD, and then put another CD on. The real enjoyment is when you are listening to the music, not to the system and how it sounds. I would not want to loose it when changing the cables.
Actually I have my Yellow 1 since 10 days now and yes, it has improved significantly. It is better than lavender in many aspects. Am I enjoying the music more? Too early to say.
I think at the end it's back to each own's purpose in owning a hi-fi system. There is always a risk that upgrading the components and cables all the time with the aim to get better sound may become a purpose on it's own. I'm not arguing that a better resolving system would not deliver more pleasure from listening to the music, of course it may. But sometimes you just need to find the right balance and stop tweaking the system and start enjoing the music. And if you think this way, what really counts is not whether you can extract every little detail from the recording, but rather the overall enjoyment and involvement you are experiencing.
What I like so much about Naim sound is that it is rather addictive and makes you stick to your listening chair and finish the track, or the whole CD, and then put another CD on. The real enjoyment is when you are listening to the music, not to the system and how it sounds. I would not want to loose it when changing the cables.
Actually I have my Yellow 1 since 10 days now and yes, it has improved significantly. It is better than lavender in many aspects. Am I enjoying the music more? Too early to say.
London Lad
pfm Member
I agree with all you say. BUT personally I don't want to see (hear) the results of the camera or the processing, I want to see (hear) what i saw at the scene of the photograph.
I agree that photography can be an art form but I don't want my Hi-Fi to be an artist, just a reproducer.
My Green 1 lead is a year old and sounds better than my lavender and better than a Hi-Line, to me.
My new green4 xlr to din leads, after only 2 weeks already sound better than the original Naim leads.
My 2 week old Skylink (blue) is improving day by day but at the moment I still prefer my original green.
I agree that photography can be an art form but I don't want my Hi-Fi to be an artist, just a reproducer.
My Green 1 lead is a year old and sounds better than my lavender and better than a Hi-Line, to me.
My new green4 xlr to din leads, after only 2 weeks already sound better than the original Naim leads.
My 2 week old Skylink (blue) is improving day by day but at the moment I still prefer my original green.
I know what you mean about wanting an indistinguishable version of reality, but you're never going to get that, and will always have to accept a compromise. It really comes down to which compromises you are willing to accept, and our tastes differ.
I think it was Edward Hopper, the American realist painter, that said that opening the window to too much detail took the focus away from the subject, and that cropping pictures tight to the subject communicated the social comment in the painting better than including 'noise'. I think there was something about 'letting in things that don't belong'.
Cables, and hifi overall for that matter, have a bandwidth and roll off eventually. Cables will present the signal differently. Which is closer to reality would be impossible to say because we probably all hear differently and filter different frequencies anyway.
If listening to a live band at a small bar gig on CD, do you want to hear the people talking at the back or do you want the mix to emphasise the vocal and acoustic guitar? Would the mixing down of chatter make the result better? If you are a realist, maybe not, even though it spoils the music. Tough decision. I can see both sides. Everything we hear on CD has been mixed by somebody, and it's their hearing and tastes that are presented to us.
As it happens, my Yellow1 has refined itself this weekend by a large margin and it sounds great and I am at the stage where I am pleased that I have both cables to cover all bases. I'm sure I'm still a way off, but the bass is unwaveringly rock solid and established, although I believe that it doesn't go as low as the grey. It's louder down there until it rolls off, whereas the grey is less emphasised overall but ultimately goes lower.
I think it was Edward Hopper, the American realist painter, that said that opening the window to too much detail took the focus away from the subject, and that cropping pictures tight to the subject communicated the social comment in the painting better than including 'noise'. I think there was something about 'letting in things that don't belong'.
Cables, and hifi overall for that matter, have a bandwidth and roll off eventually. Cables will present the signal differently. Which is closer to reality would be impossible to say because we probably all hear differently and filter different frequencies anyway.
If listening to a live band at a small bar gig on CD, do you want to hear the people talking at the back or do you want the mix to emphasise the vocal and acoustic guitar? Would the mixing down of chatter make the result better? If you are a realist, maybe not, even though it spoils the music. Tough decision. I can see both sides. Everything we hear on CD has been mixed by somebody, and it's their hearing and tastes that are presented to us.
As it happens, my Yellow1 has refined itself this weekend by a large margin and it sounds great and I am at the stage where I am pleased that I have both cables to cover all bases. I'm sure I'm still a way off, but the bass is unwaveringly rock solid and established, although I believe that it doesn't go as low as the grey. It's louder down there until it rolls off, whereas the grey is less emphasised overall but ultimately goes lower.
I am reminded about a hifi dealer I used to go to who would always play Led Zep's Since I've Been Loving You and point out the squeek of the bass drum pedal. Trouble is, even many years later I can't listen to that track without listening out for that ****ing squeek!! That track is ruined for me now! 
London Lad
pfm Member
Very good point, its all been mixed anyway.
dave
Plywood King
I am reminded about a hifi dealer I used to go to who would always play Led Zep's Since I've Been Loving You and point out the squeek of the bass drum pedal. Trouble is, even many years later I can't listen to that track without listening out for that ****ing squeek!! That track is ruined for me now!
Ahhh...that would be the Ludwig Speed King pedal. Those were the days--hippy chicks--free love.
Dave J
Übermember
I lusted after one and when I finally bought one, it was shit
Dave J
Übermember
OK, so I'm now up to 12 days, about 50-55 hours of burn-in time, on the Green 4 and it has started to hit its stride. I wasn't at all sure after a week as it was still closed in and a tad shrill, but as of today it's got me playing the entire CD rather than just single tracks and I'm back to simply enjoying the music.
I'm sure there's still more to come but at this moment in time I'd say it has all the traditional Naim qualities (in abundance) AND more information, space, depth. Perhaps not quite the same bass emphasis (although it did after the first week so that may be still to come). I'll live with it for a few weks before swapping the Snaic back to make sure I'm not delusional.
I'm sure there's still more to come but at this moment in time I'd say it has all the traditional Naim qualities (in abundance) AND more information, space, depth. Perhaps not quite the same bass emphasis (although it did after the first week so that may be still to come). I'll live with it for a few weks before swapping the Snaic back to make sure I'm not delusional.
bob atherton
pfm Member
I'm very happy to do this. Have had the SkyLink for exactly two weeks now. In many ways it's a different animal to the Green 2 that I used to use.
Short answers are:
More bass, more and warmer mids, slightly more recessed top end but very, very sweet. Much more analogue. Burn in was a nightmare. LOVE IT. will get back with the full story in about another week...
Peter Stockwell
Back for more ...
bob atherton
pfm Member
I've got a load of work that I must get done over the next few days so I may not check in here for a while, but I will quickly answer Peter's questions.
There is more bass and deeper bass too, a bit like going from a Naim 140 to a 250.
When I said more analogue I meant that it sounded more like an analogue recording, like a studio recording on tape, rather than a totally digital recording. I'm reluctant to compare with record players, but, the SkyLink does sound closer to my LP12 than the Green 2 did, and that sounded a lot better than the Naim Lavender. I will give the whole story in about a week, but I MUST get this work done!
There is more bass and deeper bass too, a bit like going from a Naim 140 to a 250.
When I said more analogue I meant that it sounded more like an analogue recording, like a studio recording on tape, rather than a totally digital recording. I'm reluctant to compare with record players, but, the SkyLink does sound closer to my LP12 than the Green 2 did, and that sounded a lot better than the Naim Lavender. I will give the whole story in about a week, but I MUST get this work done!
Peter Stockwell
Back for more ...
Bob,
Okay, I'll await your return It's interesting to note, on unrelated subject, that some like the "grunge" that the standard naim cables bring to the show. Ok, I'll accept thatgrunge is maybe too strong a word, but you'll find various comments about muicality and hifi here and there on the subject.
Okay, I'll await your return
It's interesting to note, on unrelated subject, that some like the "grunge" that the standard naim cables bring to the show. Ok, I'll accept thatgrunge is maybe too strong a word, but you'll find various comments about muicality and hifi here and there on the subject.My SkyLink is in the pipeline - I am ready to go into the burn in pain again. And, by the way, I found that Avondale BlackLink speaker cable is a very good companion to my Green2, much better than NACA5 (ok, there is still a bit of NACA5 in my system, because I needed to build some jumpers for the bi-wire terminals)...