Another "bad 'un" for Cressida?

[stevec67]

They can always go lower:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...e-services-scotland-yard-hackney-b988292.html

Broader point is that the bar for police being allowed anywhere near schools should be set very, very high. The teachers bear a lot of the blame in this instance.

On the contrary, calling the police to a school for a suspected criminal offence is exactly the right thing to do. What else are you going to do, give them lines? FFS. Where this went wrong was the subsequent appalling behaviour by the police.

The moment that you fail to call the police to a crime scene because you cannot trust them to do their job the system is utterly, utterly broken.

According to the report, the impact on the secondary school pupil – referred to as Child Q – was “profound” and the repercussions “obvious and ongoing”. Family members described her as changing from a “happy-go-lucky girl to a timid recluse that hardly speaks”, who now self-harms and needs therapy.

The poor child. Just horrendous.

Agree that calling in the police because teachers thought they smelt cannabis was a grotesque over-reaction. Be interesting to see what action is taken against the officers. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Seanm]

On the contrary, calling the police to a school for a suspected criminal offence is exactly the right thing to do. What else are you going to do, give them lines? FFS. Where this went wrong was the subsequent appalling behaviour by the police.

The moment that you fail to call the police to a crime scene because you cannot trust them to do their job the system is utterly, utterly broken.

Look at the rest of the thread: it clearly is broken. The teachers should have known that. Too many people still think of the police as an ordinary caring profession, and that’s not what they are. They’re dangerous to black and working class communities, and to women. Teachers should be protecting their pupils from them and turning to them only as a last resort.

 

[Dogberry]

Seems to be a common occurrence for the Met.

"More than 4,500 children as young as 10 have been strip searched by the Metropolitan police over the past five years, data released under the Freedom of Information Act shows." 2008-2014.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/16/metropolitan-police-strip-search-children-4500

 

[Tony L]

Look at the rest of the thread: it clearly is broken. The teachers should have known that. Too many people still think of the police as an ordinary caring profession, and that’s not what they are. They’re dangerous to black and working class communities, and to women. Teachers should be protecting their pupils from them and turning to them only as a last resort.

You really can’t expect a teacher to take an ideological line that would be in breach of process and therefore their employment contract. The police role is clearly defined in our society and law. The Met clearly fall far, far below required standards at present, but that is a case for whistle-blowing and reform. We need to keep shining the brightest possible spotlight on the racism, sexism and brutality that seems absolutely endemic in this force. That is the only way forward IMO. Getting a load of good teachers sacked is not the answer!

 

[Seanm]

You really can’t expect a teacher to take an ideological line that would be in breach of process and therefore their employment contract. The police role is clearly defined in our society and law. The Met clearly fall far, far below required standards at present, but that is a case for whistle-blowing and reform. We need to keep shining the brightest possible spotlight on the racism, sexism and brutality that seems absolutely endemic in this force. That is the only way forward IMO. Getting a load of good teachers sacked is not the answer!

Ideology has nothing to do with it. The police are a hazard and they have no business in schools. The interface between education and policing has to be redrawn to take into account what the police actually are, instead of what they're supposed to be. In the meantime individual teachers are in a difficult position but they have to act responsibly. In this particular case it seems they escalated things quickly and these are the predictable consequences. I hope it stands as a warning to other teachers to examine all options and call the police as a very last resort.

 

[paulfromcamden]

You really can’t expect a teacher to take an ideological line that would be in breach of process and therefore their employment contract. The police role is clearly defined in our society and law. The Met clearly fall far, far below required standards at present, but that is a case for whistle-blowing and reform. We need to keep shining the brightest possible spotlight on the racism, sexism and brutality that seems absolutely endemic in this force. That is the only way forward IMO. Getting a load of good teachers sacked is not the answer!

Personally I think calling the police because they smelt cannabis was an over-reaction. Call the parents by all means but it doesn't seem to me like a police matter. I understand others will take a different view.

More serious is the dereliction of care. Safeguarding seems to have gone out the window in this instance. Why wasn't a trusted adult present? If the child's parents weren't available then a trusted teacher who could intervene.

 

[stevec67]

Look at the rest of the thread: it clearly is broken. The teachers should have known that. Too many people still think of the police as an ordinary caring profession, and that’s not what they are. They’re dangerous to black and working class communities, and to women. Teachers should be protecting their pupils from them and turning to them only as a last resort.

No. If someone is breaking the law it's a police matter. You can't take the law into your own hands simply because you don't trust the police.

Personally I think calling the police because they smelt cannabis was an over-reaction. Call the parents by all means but it doesn't seem to me like a police matter. I understand others will take a different view.

More serious is the dereliction of care. Safeguarding seems to have gone out the window in this instance. Why wasn't a trusted adult present? If the child's parents weren't available then a trusted teacher who could intervene.

The second sentence is the crux. Teachers are *in lock parentis* and this has status in law. The police *have* to allow a parent or guardian (et al) to safeguard a minor.

Bear in mind the outcry if the teachers had not called the police when they detected the smell of cannabis, elected not to call the police and the said child then supplied drugs to their classmates. Where's your safeguarding then?

 

[kensalriser]

If schools called police every time the law was broken, police would be attending calls at every secondary school dozens of times every day (unless of course, someone can convince me that physical assault/bullying in schools is no longer commonplace). If it doesn't happen in cases of violence, why for this? Police involved should be prosecuted for sexual assault and placed on the sexual offenders register.

 

[farfromthesun]

No. If someone is breaking the law it's a police matter. You can't take the law into your own hands simply because you don't trust the police.

I think there needs to be a distinction here - smelling of weed isn't against the law and nor did they find any after they'd carried out their gruesome violation.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Here's the full report: https://chscp.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Child-Q-PUBLISHED-14-March-22.pdf

5. Findings and Recommendations

5.1 It has been a relatively straightforward process for the review to conclude that Child Q should never have been strip searched. Across many of the professionals involved that day, there was an absence of a safeguarding first approach to their practice. There were other ways that this incident could and should have been managed, beyond the largely criminal justice response from the police and the disciplinary response from the school.

5.2 Whilst school staff were right to respond to their concerns, the intervention that followed is considered by the review to have been disproportionate and ultimately harmful to Child Q.

It's hard to argue with either of those.

School ****ed up badly. Police ****ed up badly. Hopefully this case will lead to better practice.

 

[Cav]

The search was not PACE compliant and those conducting it might be guilty of assault.

There is certainly grounds for claim against the Police.

 

[stevec67]

I think there needs to be a distinction here - smelling of weed isn't against the law and nor did they find any after they'd carried out their gruesome violation.

If you have reason to suspect that someone is breaking the law you are as a teacher obliged to call the police. Simply smelling of weed is probably not enough. However it's a judgement call and neither you nor I were there on the day making all the observations. Was there any other supporting evidence? We don't know.

 

[molee]

Whilst the police actions have been, rightly, critiqued there is also the issue that teachers are not all the saintly purveyors of truth and knowledge that they are sometimes made out to be . Without going all 'Brick in the wall' some of the senior management types I have come across especially in academy schools shouldn't be let loose in a school, never mind the police. I wonder if there was a one size fits all 'policy' in place regarding what teachers should do if they suspect the presence of drugs?

 

[farfromthesun]

If you have reason to suspect that someone is breaking the law you are as a teacher obliged to call the police. Simply smelling of weed is probably not enough. However it's a judgement call and neither you nor I were there on the day making all the observations. Was there any other supporting evidence? We don't know.

I think that the school should have exhausted all other avenues before calling the Police - search possessions, pockets, bags. Call parents or guardians. If any of this didn’t produce any evidence then it could probably have been concluded that there was no crime.

 

[stevec67]

I think that the school should have exhausted all other avenues before calling the Police - search possessions, pockets, bags. Call parents or guardians. If any of this didn’t produce any evidence then it could probably have been concluded that there was no crime.

You are not authorised to search if you are not police. It's assault. You can *ask* the person to empty their pockets.

If you as a teacher suspect drugs and you *don't* call the police you had better hope that you have a bloody good line of reasoning supported in writing by senior management, unless you want to try a different career.

 

[farfromthesun]

You are not authorised to search if you are not police. It's assault. You can *ask* the person to empty their pockets.

Yep - if they say no, call the parents.

 

[Frizzy]

Wow!
Seriously shocked, 2022, echoes of17th slave markets.

 

[Seeker_UK]

School ****ed up badly. Police ****ed up badly. Hopefully this case will lead to better practice.

That's not the main takeaway I got from the report. ISTM the main cause was adherence to a set of rules that were out of date but worse, ambiguous.

 

[Seanm]

You are not authorised to search if you are not police. It's assault. You can *ask* the person to empty their pockets.

If you as a teacher suspect drugs and you *don't* call the police you had better hope that you have a bloody good line of reasoning supported in writing by senior management, unless you want to try a different career.

I don’t know where you’re getting any of this from. Here’s the police’s own advice on when a school should call them in - see page 6:

https://www.npcc.police.uk/document... police guidance for schools and colleges.pdf

Teachers *are* authorised to search, and they have a great deal of discretion: the general thrust of the advice is, deal with it yourself if you can. No teacher is going to lose their job for failing call the cops over suspected possession of cannabis, that’s ridiculous.

There may have been aggravating circumstances here, maybe we’ll learn more. But on the face of it it’s an appalling decision by the school, a complete dereliction of their duty of care.

I can only hope the child gets the counselling she needs and the justice she deserves: heads need to roll. And maybe we’ll get a review of the abusive “Safer Schools” initiative, which embeds officers in primarily black and working class schools. What a joke that is.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/25/uk-police-forces-deploy-683-officers-in-schools

 

[stevec67]

I don’t know where you’re getting any of this from. Here’s the police’s own advice on when a school should call them in - see page 6:

https://www.npcc.police.uk/documents/Children and Young people/When to call the police guidance for schools and colleges.pdf

Teachers *are* authorised to search, and they have a great deal of discretion: the general thrust of the advice is, deal with it yourself if you can. No teacher is going to lose their job for failing call the cops over suspected possession of cannabis, that’s ridiculous.

There may have been aggravating circumstances here, maybe we’ll learn more. But on the face of it it’s an appalling decision by the school, a complete dereliction of their duty of care.

I can only hope the child gets the counselling she needs and the justice she deserves: heads need to roll. And maybe we’ll get a review of the abusive “Safer Schools” initiative, which embeds officers in primarily black and working class schools. What a joke that is.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/25/uk-police-forces-deploy-683-officers-in-schools

From numerous family members who teach, both now and going back decades. I'll take their views over yours.