S-Man
StrivingON
Agreed, although I would add: "...with something to sell".
Amir vs Danny
- Thread starter ToTo Man
- Start date
Agreed, although I would add: "...with something to sell".
duckworp
pfm Member
The problem with ASR, other than the intrinsic issue of not actually testing by listening, is that when their testing methods are criticised, which they often are as in this example, Amir tends to defensively double down. When people do this their view and position becomes more entrenched. This leads to that “Church of ASR” feeling amongst the “followers”, but where supposed objectivity starts to fall apart when viewed objectively from an external position.
narabdela
who?
Indeed, though afik, only one of them is selling something.
You could say the same about "The Church of Danny" and his fawning acolytes.
Tony L
Administrator
Everyone is selling something. Even me, and I don’t care in the slightest what hi-fi anyone buys or how it measures*!
*I’d suggest folk at least consider long-term sustainability, repairability, green perspectives, child/slave labour etc and make their purchases with some degree of integrity, but beyond that you are on your own!
*I’d suggest folk at least consider long-term sustainability, repairability, green perspectives, child/slave labour etc and make their purchases with some degree of integrity, but beyond that you are on your own!
S-Man
StrivingON
Doesn't Amir get income from the ad "views" on his Youtube vids?
Yes, of course, so all traffic is good. You know what they say. There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that s not being talked about.
notevenclose
pfm Member
I more or less know who Amir is, by forum osmosis I guess, although I've never looked at ARS or whatever his site is.
Danny? Not a clue.
I feel fairly confident though that this is one of those times when ignorance really is bliss.
Danny? Not a clue.
I feel fairly confident though that this is one of those times when ignorance really is bliss.
It's because a large part of hifi is foo. Nobody talks about crossover components because they're part of the magic black boxes. But everybody thinks that they understand drivers, so they'll spend money there, and if course you're a fool if you don't buy the best cables, because the cables are in the signal path. Yet nobody upgrades crossovers. So let's carry on connecting £10 crossovers to £500 amplifiers with £200 cables. Honestly, this game is marketing bollocks sold to gullible people with money to burn. Carry on.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
No one ever seems to mention it, but in Danny's speaker evaluations and upgrades, he never mentions listening to them at all, before or after. Also, I believe his "after" measurements are simulations.
Of course he does
Tony L
Administrator
Even worse than that are people assuming that the speaker designer didn’t fully understand the electrical parameters of the crossover components they selected and chucking some random modern film caps, massive inductors or whatever at it will improve things! A capacitor is never merely a capacitor. There are other properties that will have been factored-into any really good crossover. I learned this one the hard way by wasting money making things subjectively worse!
Speakers are extraordinarily personal things. Folk like or dislike whatever they like. I certainly found that what I love about say vintage Tannoys was just wiped-out by certain third-party tweaks or third-party replacement crossovers.
S-Man
StrivingON
It was a rhetorical question!
If you say so.
S-Man
StrivingON
Good point! He does revel in the feedback from fawning customers though.
Must admit that I would be very wary of some of his "upgrades" - lobbing a couple of notch filters at a driver's reponse is not a good way to get good sound IME.
$50 for a pair of "tube" connectors seems a bit misguided, if one considers that most speakers cables have a plug at each end and the amp would need a similar "upgrade". Surely the whole lot needs "tubing", along with the cable?
It would be interesting to see his upgraded LS3/5A crossovers
.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
To be fair I think he's doing more than that. Looks to me like he's starting from scratch for each crossover design, paying attention to phase tracking and such. But it's sort of a cookie cutter approach, I think most of them get a 2nd order, with baffle step and whatever notches are needed to tame the top end of the woofer.
It would be interesting to see his upgraded LS3/5A crossovers
He did a "review" of the Harbeth P3ESR. It measured very well by his standards, but he did not like the quality of crossover components. Of course. I think the terms "cheesy" and "worst of the worst" came up... He declined to work up a modification because it wouldn't fit in the box. I suppose the LS3/5A would get a similar treatment from him, except it might show up more measurement irregularities.
It's a race to the bottom.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
Indeed. I first heard of this Danny guy when he did an upgrade video for some DALI Oberon speakers (disclaimer: I own some 5's). He excoriated the bright on-axis frequency response and dutifully set about correcting the idiot designer's mistakes. What he apparently failed to do before setting out on this heroic task was to research the design. The speakers are explicitly designed not to be toed in and therefore to be listened to well off-axis and thusby design have a bright on-axis response.