All purpose football thread 2023/24 Season
- Thread starter Brian
- Start date
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I do not enjoy using excuses but we have a lot of 1st choice players absent.
it has always been a roller coaster ride, think it is worth hanging on as they showed a lot of grit, and the season is far from over
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Even though I am a City supporter, that shouldn't have been a penalty.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
fair enough, you deserved the win
As Oldius says to actually write a handball rule and improve on the current law is very tricky.
Your simple attempt would result in all the defenders from say 2 yards away spreading their arms out in the hope of stopping a shot. Presently it is nice to see defenders consciously holding their arms by their side which is a plus for the present rule.
Handball from a defender 10yds away has never been an issue unless his vision has been impaired.
How does one judge a players reaction time; it is not just a function of how far away he is but, notwithstanding deflections, how hard the shot has been struck, hence your omission of addressing distances between 2 and 10 yards. It is once one tries to bring reaction times and therefore a defenders intent to handle the ball into the law the problem arises and a slow motion replay by a VAR cannot be of assistance. Remember sport is not character building and players, managers and clubs will cheat at every opportunity; hence my lack of sympathy for apparently unfair handball decisions and questions of intent.
Therefore I suggest that until all clubs, managers and official bodies can come up with something better then we should accept the law as it stands. Unfortunately and not surprisingly they cannot.
What we really need is for referees to apply the law in a more consistent manner. For Odegaard's handball in the Liverpool match not to be given is beyond me and says more about refereeing than about the law.
SiBrighton
pfm Member
Nice appreciation for our leader. https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24018659.brighton-chairman-tony-bloom-awarded-mbe-new-year-honours/
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
But it doesn't stand, does it? They keep fiddling with it because it never seems to make sense.
OK, so what changes do you suggest? Again as Oldius suggests it isn't easy. The present law is an attempt to make defenders learn to keep their arms next to their bodies at all times even though this is may be an unnatural position for some of the movements they are making. Yes it is natural to have your arms out wide when jumping but tough, you either take the risk or learn to jump with your arms tucked in. As I said we do now see defenders consciously tucking their arms against their bodies and making unnatural movements which, for me, shows they know the law and it can be done for the benefit of the game.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Back to what it was; it has to be deliberate, which means a subjective decision by the ref. I'm happy with that, and if VAR is involved, no slow motion replays allowed in the decision making. IMO there is far too much pandering to TV, to the detriment of the actual game. I would also argue for a cut off time for VAR decisions; 2 minutes, say? If no decision then the on-field decision stands.
Blue Belle
pfm Member
Pleased with the Chelsea win, but Luton could have scored six, or more.
Ok I don't disagree but as you say by being subjective in the decision making it would result in, as at present, continued inconsistencies but probably with less penalties and goals. Resultant controversy would be a godsend for clickbait journalists and our gobshite TV pundits and commentators.
Weekender
pfm Member
If the law is changed to "if it hits the hand it's handball" then, in addition to purely accidental, arm in natural position incidents, opponents will also attempt to play the ball off the defender's hand/arm deliberately...and this is anywhere in the box, generating a penalty. Both seem harsh to me.
Of course they will. Players take advantage and cheat at every opportunity, hence them going over like tenpins at the slightest of touches once they are in the penalty area. So why the sympathy for harsh decisions against them?
Weekender
pfm Member
It has nothing to do with "sympathy for harsh decisions" but is driven by an interest in an equitable interpretation of what should constitute handball. Award of a penalty when the ball is deliberately played against the arm or strikes the arm in a natural position without intent to handle is not in the spirit intended by the handball rule. IMO.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
Controversies are already a godsend to them, so no change there. We used to manage with the old rule, but TV, with its slo-mos and replays, changed that. So don't pander to TV as much. Do you think they would stop covering matches? So no financial disadvantage to reverting. After all, the current mess hasn't improved the situation, so why continue with it?
It makes me think of the nerds who endlessly replay movies looking for a telegraph pole or a watch in period pieces.
I agree with your general point but especially enjoyed your last sentence.
I doubt that anybody would disagree with you and that is what both the present and previous handball law has been attempting to achieve. So unless somebody comes up with a better solution we just continue with subjective decisions by our referees and the potential controversy. No big deal; since day one football has thrived on controversy.
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