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All purpose football thread 2021-2022 season

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bencat said:
I know but as has been pointed out so did other teams at that time have money and spent it Liverpool at this time never had a huge money advantage with which they could have bought any player and then kept on buying . And yes Liverpool was picked out and cited for ulterior reasons and not just as an example . It is being done on this thread constantly which is fine but a little predictable. So now due to your devastating comment regarding a single performance we need to review if Bill Shankly was a good manager ? Yeah right will just skip over what he won and what he set up and how he made Liverpool the club they were in the 70's and 80's and the League , FA Cup , CL , and Milk Cups that were won . If you are really saying that Bill was poor as a Manager then please enlighten me and every one else as to why .

No teams in the current PL are saints and they all have issues , Liverpool with US owners has no moral grounds to point out any faults in other clubs , we were also involved as one of the teams backing the Super League breakaway so no moral high ground either . But none of the other teams Spurs , Arsenal , Utd , City supporters should be throwing out any brick bats either they were all as guilty . Will now end any further comment on outside football as it is just playground name calling with no side having any right to castigate the other. Will try my best to stick to the football which so far for me has been outstanding . Having said that would love to hide behind off field antics tonight as i am not at all convinced that Liverpool will not get another good beating by a nicely rested Athletic side . Spanish League only too happy to give teams a rest if they ask because they are involved in CL and have South American players away , Premier League well do not even ask as there is no chance .
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Massive overreaction, of course Shankly was a great manager but I was just illustrating that he needed money/investment to succeed whereas we sold Denis Law to buy floodlights. The game was very different then but Liverpool were certainly one of the richer clubs & broke transfer records quite regularly. John Barnes was the highest paid player in the league at one point.

I do think Liverpool like to portray a certain image which has been belied of late by certain actions.
 
No Geoff the problem as always is mine and mine alone the constant sniping and using Liverpool as the villain in the piece is just wearing and any attempt to defend is classed as a massive over reaction . The Shankly comment was for me the last straw , if that was meant to be funny seemed no joke in it . Why would you trawl to find something like that so far back just to make a joke ? Not likely . Liverpool as a club I have hated all my life and still do they view fans as cash cows and have little if any respect for them . I will defend the team and coaching staff as they have given me years of joy and sorrow in equal measures . No team in the PL is innocent to say Liverpool currently have huge money is just not true . we have to sell and gain profit before we can spend any large fee . We identify players and were there is only one then we will try to make that happen under the current Owners we have never just gone out and bought a huge fee player without having already made a huge profit to use for that purchase . Net Spend is the real indicator of if a Club is trying to operate within its means or funding from personal / company wealth . If they are doing the second than good luck to that team they are very fortunate to have owners who are prepared to do that . It does distort things but that is the way it is it will not change . What I dislike is castigating any single team for this and ignoring your own teams situation . Newcastle are welcome to their new status but be very careful unless you get the full structure and Coaching Team and Scouting Team right they may well find that just spending money is not enough . Barcelona are just now finding out that they are not going to be able to build with costly signings and they will have issues for many years to come . However they do have a structure and they do have a real system and style of play . Because of this they will recover and slowly become a force in football again but probably not for three or more years .
 
@bencat Newcastle need to be very careful not to just fling money trying to build a top side. It is easy to waste money on the wrong players - just look at £40m Joelinton. I want to see them prioritise survival this season whilst laying the foundations for good Scouting, Coaching and Academy systems. The Training Facilities need major development and may even need to be relocated. It will take us a number of years to catch-up, but with the right people in the key positions and the right financial backing, Newcastle can again challenge at the top end of the table and get into Europe.
 
You are right about the pit falls but before they start buying they need to get the right manager and staff in place and a decent Sports Director or Buying Board . Only when you decide how you want to play and set up and get this established right through the club from youth teams to U17 , U23 and the Pl side will you then be in the position to start buying in the right players for the right positions . Raffa did this when he cam in to Liverpool and set many of things in motion that are still evident in the team now . The current Liverpool side is not an accident and did not become a good footballing side quickly it has taken time and addition of essential elements . Problem for Newcastle is that they are in the sad position of not really having time as the current new owners will at least expect them to stay up which is by no means certain . They could do with two managers working in tandem one with the real gritty experience of getting a team out that are hard to beat and can get out of a relegation dog fight . The other to be looking ahead and getting the playing style in place and setting out the type of players they are going to need going forward rather than what they need right now . Money will always help and long term will enable better player squads and a better team but it can take time and will the patience be pushed if they get relegated ?

The real important first step is going to be the appointment of the best Manager and staff they can get and currently there is no candidate that stands out for this sort of project as they like to call it now . Raffa could well have been the answer as he can build and find a way to be hard to beat but I do not think they will be able to prise him out of Everton though I am sure there are many Everton supporters who would breathe a sigh of relief for him to leave despite the job he is doing.
 
Given the monumental change at Newcastle, I think it would be nice if the occasion was marked with a special edition of Viz.

May I venture 'Siaad the Sexist", "The Fat (soon to be stoned to death) Women of Low Virtue" and "Sober Bakers".
 
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bencat said:
No Geoff the problem as always is mine and mine alone the constant sniping and using Liverpool as the villain in the piece is just wearing and any attempt to defend is classed as a massive over reaction . The Shankly comment was for me the last straw , if that was meant to be funny seemed no joke in it . Why would you trawl to find something like that so far back just to make a joke ? Not likely . Liverpool as a club I have hated all my life and still do they view fans as cash cows and have little if any respect for them . I will defend the team and coaching staff as they have given me years of joy and sorrow in equal measures . No team in the PL is innocent to say Liverpool currently have huge money is just not true . we have to sell and gain profit before we can spend any large fee . We identify players and were there is only one then we will try to make that happen under the current Owners we have never just gone out and bought a huge fee player without having already made a huge profit to use for that purchase . Net Spend is the real indicator of if a Club is trying to operate within its means or funding from personal / company wealth . If they are doing the second than good luck to that team they are very fortunate to have owners who are prepared to do that . It does distort things but that is the way it is it will not change . What I dislike is castigating any single team for this and ignoring your own teams situation . Newcastle are welcome to their new status but be very careful unless you get the full structure and Coaching Team and Scouting Team right they may well find that just spending money is not enough . Barcelona are just now finding out that they are not going to be able to build with costly signings and they will have issues for many years to come . However they do have a structure and they do have a real system and style of play . Because of this they will recover and slowly become a force in football again but probably not for three or more years .
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I am a Huddersfield Town fan, I didn’t need to ‘trawl’, we also had Herbert Chapman in the past. He did pretty well for us but better for Arsenal. I think you massively overreacted.

Football exists beyond the top flight.
 
Apart from the recent past when every man and his dog knew that Liverpool needed a decent Centre back and a goalkeeper they have been brilliant in recruiting, Keegan, Clemence, Lawrenson, Dalglish etc, etc but I think that bencat perhaps should be aware that Bill Shankly was at Huddersfield prior to Liverpool and that they had a wonderful record of trophy wins years ago.

Supporters of smaller clubs look at issues differently from the bigger clubs , for example bigger clubs seldom have to sell players but for a club like Huddersfield to have to see Denis Law a possible beacon of their future sold to pay for floodlights is hard to take.

I doubt if any fans of the regular winners will even begin to grasp the sheer excitement that fans of smaller clubs enjoy when they briefly step into the spotlight. Shankly was so different, not just for success but because he understood the ordinary supporter like no other.
 
@bencat I would love Rafa to come back, but he has committed to the Everton project and has made a good start. I cannot see him walking away from that, especially with his family down there. Newcastle is a unique opportunity for someone though.

Newcastle do need an experienced Technical Director to advise the board and establish the football club structure. I thought an appointment might have been made quickly on this, but perhaps the chosen person is already in a role and they are negotiating release etc. Jamie Reuben has some recent experience from being on the board at QPR. I hope he could see and understand the spending mistakes they made a few years back. We don't want a repeat of that.

Unfortunately, Bruce has made a very poor start this season and looks well out of his depth with the pressure now on him. Sometimes appointments run their course and I just feel his has now and he needs to go. He's lost the players. They need a new face and a new approach. Defensively we are a shambles.
 
Still a strange thing to make doubts about a Manager and Man that you say was great at your club what is the joke by the way I still do not see it . All you did was make a comment that he had lost a game heavily after scoring six goals , which was before he even came to Liverpool . He left Huddersfield because your owners would not back him and the rest is history . It is still a very long time ago . I was born in Liverpool and followed them along with my Dad and Uncle since I was seven I have no other team (well I do like Tranmere but that is a sort side line) so what can I do except deal with my team and how they prosper or fall . I am old enough to have supported Liverpool when they were not very good and in transition and then went through the winning era of the 70,s and 80,s the main money at that time came from Liverpool winning so much and large regular crowds even then we were not viewed as the biggest club that was always Utd who have always been the media favourites as most newspaper and TV outposts were based in Manchester . I then had to endure the times when we were close but not quite good enough and having to accpet that we would lose players to glamour clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona . Currently things have changed but it looks like we are still in danger of losing Mo but I hope that current playing form and prospects will perhaps give him cause to think there is not that much better out there but we will see. We are still not the richest of any of the current clubs and we have to work to a budget and within our earnings this is not a moan by me just the reality of our current position and which we have a current manager who seems to be able to work with that . Other clubs have very different models and can do things differently and good look to all of them I do not get jealous or begrudge them there time in the sun we all need it . So while I do understand that there is other football than the PL with my team there is not any other league it is were my team play and what i pay for a season ticket for to watch every other week . Liverpool are my team and always will be they might at some future point fall on real hard times and get relegated again and when that comes I will still buy my season ticket and support them but it is just not possible for me to concern myself with other leagues as if they really matter to me as they do not it is more interest than any real feeling about what is happening .
 
bencat said:
Still a strange thing to make doubts about a Manager and Man that you say was great at your club what is the joke by the way I still do not see it . All you did was make a comment that he had lost a game heavily after scoring six goals , which was before he even came to Liverpool . He left Huddersfield because your owners would not back him and the rest is history . It is still a very long time ago . I was born in Liverpool and followed them along with my Dad and Uncle since I was seven I have no other team (well I do like Tranmere but that is a sort side line) so what can I do except deal with my team and how they prosper or fall . I am old enough to have supported Liverpool when they were not very good and in transition and then went through the winning era of the 70,s and 80,s the main money at that time came from Liverpool winning so much and large regular crowds even then we were not viewed as the biggest club that was always Utd who have always been the media favourites as most newspaper and TV outposts were based in Manchester . I then had to endure the times when we were close but not quite good enough and having to accpet that we would lose players to glamour clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona . Currently things have changed but it looks like we are still in danger of losing Mo but I hope that current playing form and prospects will perhaps give him cause to think there is not that much better out there but we will see. We are still not the richest of any of the current clubs and we have to work to a budget and within our earnings this is not a moan by me just the reality of our current position and which we have a current manager who seems to be able to work with that . Other clubs have very different models and can do things differently and good look to all of them I do not get jealous or begrudge them there time in the sun we all need it . So while I do understand that there is other football than the PL with my team there is not any other league it is were my team play and what i pay for a season ticket for to watch every other week . Liverpool are my team and always will be they might at some future point fall on real hard times and get relegated again and when that comes I will still buy my season ticket and support them but it is just not possible for me to concern myself with other leagues as if they really matter to me as they do not it is more interest than any real feeling about what is happening .
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In 2020 Liverpool were second only to Utd in income.
Manchester United $651 million
Liverpool FC $627 million
Manchester City $617 million
Chelsea FC $527 million

The fact is that the Red Yank teams owners see the clubs as milch cows and take revenue out rather than invest it in the club.
You have a manager who never stops hypocritically whining about not being able to compete financially but was quite happy setting world record transfer fees for goalies and centre halves.
 
Stuart Frazer said:
Perhaps it was the 18 PL Teams that decided to take it down at last nights Emergency Meeting to temporary block Newcastle sponsorship deals:

Premier League clubs vote to block Newcastle sponsorship deals at emergency meeting | Newcastle United | The Guardian

Man City abstained. They had to really.

It is interesting that this is only temporary for one month at present whilst they look into it further. But where does this leave Man City with their present sponsorship arrangements?

Newcastle claim that legal advice say this is anti-competitive and unlawful. This might end up in the Courts.
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It is certain to end up in the Courts because some clubs are at it again.

I’ve said all along the deal was blocked from going through by certain other clubs lobbying, nothing has happened recently that changes that opinion. Different rules for different people. It’s always how it’s been.
 
I can see change occurring not just on the coaching/playing staff side at Newcastle.

For example, I shouldn't think the new owners are too happy with ground being named after a saint and how about all the pork pies/scratchings consumed on the premises on match day. No alcohol allowed in the stadium?

All of that might seem unlikely but the new owners are not progressive like the Mansours ManCity owners. Sure the Geordies would whinge a lot but NUFC are the owners property now to do as he sees fit. All of that great history and tradition with legends like Jackie Milburn counts for nowt in year zero.
 
Lovely figures but what was the profit ? All the other clubs have no outlay for building which Liverpool did for new main stand . Paying record prices for players using the profit from sales is not the same as just paying out for a player as others have you always seem to miss this point . Yes the current owners take the profits but sadly like most PL clubs the earnings are low currently and I think last season we made a loss . Klopp does indeed moan that he is not able to spend in the same way and it is the truth Liverpool either will not or can not spend without either selling or winning a major trophy . The spending you keep bringing up was quite a few seasons ago and we have not been anywhere close to record signings since then. Other clubs have continued since then to spend and spend again in some cases very large sums . So I still think my view on this is accurate .
 
Although a Newcastle fan since 1968, I have nothing but admiration for the Liverpool teams under Shankly, Paisley and the rest right through to today. They were the team to beat for many years, I shouted support for them in European Cup finals but they spent money to bring them success, it's as simple as that.

I was at the 1973/74 Cup Final and watched them slaughter Newcastle. That team was packed with signings. They went on to buy McDermott and Alan Kennedy from Newcastle, both England internationals. They bought Dalglish to replace Keegan, Souness, Hansen, Rush, Lawrenson and many others. Their signings were astute and made to fit perfectly into their football club, which was obviously well run from the top down, so the success continued to flow.

Liverpool supporters should be happy to have been supporting a club like this for all those years. I'm 63 at the weekend, I would love to look back over my life and see my team achieving even half of what Liverpool has.

Anyway, that's my take on Liverpool, especially for whoever moaned about my joke yesterday. They have had a great team for a large part of my life, contrast that with Newcastle, which has had a shite football team and poorly run club for most of my life.
 
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Rack Kit said:
Liverpool, like virtually every club (bar Leicester) have won the Premier League because they’ve been financially very well backed for years.

99% of the time, Money = success. It’s really that simple.

Now I fully expect Newcastle to win the Premier League this season with Steve Bruce in charge. The pressure is all on them now and it’s theirs to lose.
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Leicester were owned by a billionaire when then won the EPL - just saying
 
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