1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

Afghanistan withdrawal.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Martyn Miles, Jul 4, 2021.

  1. Frizzy

    Frizzy Liberal anarchist

    Same argument that Vietnam brought.
  2. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Here we go

  3. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    2: That's not whataboutism, that's what makes Afghanistan special? If we have the right/need/obligation to address what's happening in Afghanistan then we should apply the same standards to other states.
    4. My view re liberal Afghans is the same as my view re those of us in the UK that didn't vote for Brexit or the current shower, we get it anyway. Sorry. Now I take your point that nobody is going to kill me for voting remain or Labour, but thems the breaks.
  4. Rana

    Rana pfm Member

    Education, especially of the women, would be the only hope for any progressive future of the varied peoples that inhabit that harsh terrain (with that very terrain perpetuating the feudal/tribal society, and the reason of many failed foreign attempts at domination). But the various "Talibans" have long figured that out, so I'm not holding out much hope at all. My family roots are originally from Bangladesh which is also largely Sunni Muslim, and we have a trust for the education of aspiring but economically disadvantaged kids from my grandfather's district. We give out hundreds of valuable secondary/college sponsorships a year. The one sponsorship ceremony that I attended was around 90% female pupils (of around 200+). It also helps that the last two PMs have been women (although neither have been great*). Education and especially that of the aspirational female population is why I hold out hope for Bangladesh's future (pop growth and climate change notwithstanding). Unfortunately I cannot see this ever happening in the Afghan territories.

    * actually compared to this current Johnson-led government I am re-evaluating this!
    sean99, Metlor, hifinutt and 5 others like this.
  5. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    I heard this on the radio news earlier - I had hopes they'd managed to ditch the 'falling plates' reputation.
    Tony Lockhart likes this.
  6. Spraggons Den

    Spraggons Den pfm Member

    Obhama was president for eight of those twenty years so I presume you think he was for milking the cash cow too and if so can you tell us his connections to the US military/industrial complex?
  7. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Every president is de-facto connected to the defense industry, because they are Commander-in-Chief as well as a final signature on the defense budget. There may not be a personal profit at all, it's just how the system is designed.... pretty much everywhere.
    Mystic Mac likes this.
  8. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Whether we withdraw tomorrow or twenty years from now, the result will be the same. We're just prolonging the inevitable.
    TimF, sean99 and DimitryZ like this.
  9. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    Look at the policies he implemented and look at the people he put in key positions. He was a neoliberal.
  10. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    They need to get it done now because they won't be fighting in the north come winter.
  11. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    The Middle East might have progressed if not for western Imperialism (including creating countries with straight-line borders and imposing rulers) ever since the Ottoman hegemony collapsed.
    kendo and DimitryZ like this.
  12. eternumviti

    eternumviti Insufficient privileges to reply.

    Progressed in what direction, given that the parting shot of the Ottoman Empire was the Armenian genocide, in which up to 1.5 million people were systematically starved to death, or simply massacred. ?

    Whilst acknowledging the slow-burn disaster of Sykes-Picot etc, your post does smack slightly of Asian Imperialism = good; Western Imperialism = bad, according to the formula that decrees that all of Western Imperialism = bad.

    Sorry, I wanted to, but couldn't let that go unremarked.
  13. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    Damn and I thought Charlie Wilson's War was all true.

  14. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    At least he wasn't McCain, or Romney.
  15. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    Frizzy likes this.
  16. Frizzy

    Frizzy Liberal anarchist

    Unfortunately no one has the answer, Russians, yanks, British empire, etc
  17. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Key word here is “might”.

    I stick to my theory that any country touched by the Ottoman Empire was/is doomed for at least the next 7 centuries (7 is a useful number for these sorts of predictions). Just look at the Balkans.

    The countries that have it really hard are the ones that have benefitted from the tender attentions of the Russian, Western, Ottoman, Persian, Russian and Mongol empires. Which, thinking about it, might include Afghanistan.
  18. Chops54

    Chops54 pfm Member

    I think the Chinese might have an answer.
  19. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    I'm reminded of the Serenity Prayer

    "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    courage to change the things I can,
    and wisdom to know the difference."

    Using military might to drag Afghanistan into the 21st century is a hiding to nothing. Bill Gates has the right idea - we will relieve much more human suffering through control of malaria, diarrhoea etc. Unfortunately that doesn't funnel money to military contractors, and so we end up with disastrous wars like Afghanistan and Iraq.
    Richard Lines and wacko like this.
  20. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    We could occupy them for another twenty years, and the same thing would happen as soon as we leave.

    The Afghans have a difficult time ahead of them.

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice