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Afghanistan withdrawal.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Martyn Miles, Jul 4, 2021.

  1. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    100 years ago Britain was struggling to keep the Afghans from raiding what is now Pakistan
  2. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    That's all well and good as long as the effect of their destiny remains within Afghanistan - when it bleeds out in the form of the poppy and terrorism then it's not sensible to allow it to continue.
    @Bob Edwards I was in Bastion in 2011 and saw the ragtag Afghan forces - they looked a bit of a mess but were fierce, and better than when I was in Kabul in '07. I'd imagine another decade of training has sharpened them right up.
    stevec67 likes this.
  3. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Good points, but at least the poppy/opium part is driven by Western demand. If we didn't buy it, they wouldn't grow it.
    wacko likes this.
  4. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    This is true...much the same as Macdonald's.
  5. Euan

    Euan pfm Member

    I shall let you explain that to the women and young girls of Afghanistan. With this action we have surely condemned them to a life of misery, repression and slavery.

    Killing Afghan Schoolgirls.
    flutteringwow and Tony Lockhart like this.
  6. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

    A little ambition will see them trying to export their terrible ideology to Pakistan etc.
  7. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    Trouble is, the west doesn’t have a great track record with ‘sorting out’ other countries.
  8. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    As opposed to the fantastic freedoms that they have enjoyed while we occupied the country, of course.
  9. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Such countries get the worst of all worlds, as 'the West' invades on the basis of a 'war on terrorism', smashes the place up and destroys existing infrastructure, both human and technical, then leaves and lets the terrorists and warlords take over. Anyone who cooperated, even minimally, with the Western forces is then marked for death.
    DimitryZ likes this.
  10. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Will you sucrifice your daughter to fight that war?

    I will not.
  11. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    Indeed, I`ve seen the film:-

    Back in 1977 I had the pleasure of traveling through Afghanistan and seeing the Buddhas of Bamiyan before they were destroyed by the Taliban. A wonderful country with friendly people. I shudder to think what has happened to the people since, and what still may.
    Rockmeister likes this.
  12. Euan

    Euan pfm Member

    Thankfully, my grandfathers had the opposite viewpoint.
  13. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Will you sucrifice your daughter to better Afghanistan?

    In my case, unambiguously no. She absolutely should not die for a country half way around the world, that has been fought over for centuries, unsuccessfully.
    Mystic Mac likes this.
  14. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    No effort required; it's there already around the tribal areas of North Pakistan.
  15. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    I doubt that the tribal areas of N Pakistan and Afghanistan recognise the international borders. I suspect they see both areas as one region divided into a number of tribal territories. The problem we have is that we are trying to introduce Western democracy in a country that is a million miles away from that and doesn't want it anyway. Unless you are prepared to move in for centuries, much as William the Conqueror did in 1066, and unify a series of fiefdoms under one nation and one rule of law, with all the cries of "colonialism" that would surely follow, you are doomed to failure. Remember it took 150 years from William to the drawing up of the Magna Carta. Are we prepared to put in a sustained effort for that long?
    hifinutt likes this.
  16. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    I used to work with an Afghani, he had some interesting comments on how Afghanistan is perceived in the West, he said the reason that women are not educated is that if they leave the family then there is no one to look after the older generation, he said you cannot apply western rules to a society with no welfare infrastructure how ever appealing it may look from the outside.
    Mystic Mac likes this.
  17. snowflake

    snowflake Former Albino Ape

    I know little of history, I am very thinly read as Eddie Izzard would say, my knowledge of the area is based on carry on up the the Khyber and Bitter Lake, with a touch of Larry of Arabia thrown in for good measure.

    But in an over simplistic world view, why doesn't the west but the poppy harvest, make decent smack and give it away, that's sort of a war gone, numerous criminal organizations looking for a new line of work, petty crime gone to fund habit and end users get quality smack. Sure Purdu (the oxy-contin gang) or whoever they are will have the moral flexibiltiy to do this, as god forbid big pharma should miss out.

  18. gustav_errata

    gustav_errata pfm Member

    And in the 100 years before that, it was using Afghanistan as a strategic buffer against Russia. Nevermind what the locals wanted. It's a small wonder people have generally poor views of "the West".
  19. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    "Any foreign troops left in Afghanistan after Nato's September withdrawal deadline will be at risk as occupiers, the Taliban has told the BBC.

    It comes amid reports that 1,000 mainly US troops could remain on the ground to protect diplomatic missions and Kabul's international airport.

    Nato's 20-year military mission in Afghanistan has all but ended.

    But violence in the country continues to rise, with the Taliban taking more territory.

    Under a deal with the militant group, the US and its Nato allies agreed to withdraw all troops in return for a commitment by the Taliban not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

    President Joe Biden set a deadline of 11 September - the 20-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the US - for American troops to fully withdraw, but reports suggest the pullout may be complete within days.

    As Afghan forces prepare to take charge of security alone, concern is growing for the future of Kabul."
  20. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Afghanistan has always been a bandit economy, preying on the silk road long ago. I don't see how the Taliban can form a government unless they start looting Pakistan, which could go nuclear very quickly.

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