Cav
pfm Member
If you like naim why not audition a naim DAC, the classic or the V1, and some CD transport?
I am not a fan of streaming and do not consider CD obsolete.
A high quality CD Player
- Thread starter naimplayer
- Start date
If you like naim why not audition a naim DAC, the classic or the V1, and some CD transport?
I am not a fan of streaming and do not consider CD obsolete.
DevillEars
Dedicated ignorer of fashion
Hi NP,
The one-box versus two-box question is not quite that binary...
There are some one-box CD players that provide additional and selectable digital inputs which allow the one-box CD player to function as a DAC for other digital feeds while retaining their ability to play CDs. (Audiolab 8200CD is one seen often here).
Recently, I decided to downsize my main rig after we'd downsized the house and put together a replacement system for use in the study. Not wanting to sacrifice sound quality, I went hunting for a decent CD player to "replace" the Theta Data Basic II and Bryston BDA-1 DAC. The options available that fitted my needs (SQ, XLR balanced outs, build-quality) included:
a) Audiolab 8200CD (build was a bit suspect)
b) Electrocompaniet PC-1 (to match the amp bought for the study)
c) Bryston BCD-1 (SQ close to BDA-1 DAC)
I eventually opted for the BCD-1 despite it having been discontinued as I know Bryston and their support (and I got it for a song too...
)The BCD-1 is an excellent one-box CD player and makes great music via the Electrocompaniet PI-2 integrated and the Chario Syntar 516 bookshelf speakers in the study.
I've subsequently re-thought my decision to sell off the main rig (the speakers went but the electronics were too pricey for the current state of the local economy) and am re-structuring the storage racks to cater for the main rig in the study. The BCD-1 and PI-2 will move to the lounge and do quite nicely in that location.
At your budget, I'd have to second the suggestion to look at Esoteric - they use their own transport mechanisms and they're amongst the best-engineered I've ever seen/heard. If you can find a K-07X at price within your budget, then go for it. It includes additional digital inputs (1 x S/PDIF, 1xToslink, 1xUSB) so will also permit later addition of other new media source components. It also looks the part...
Webpage: Link
At that level, the only other player that comes to mind is the Emm Labs CDSA - but whether or not it is available in the UK and for how much, I don't know.
Webpage: Link
Happy hunting...
Dave
martin clark
pinko bodger
DevilEars - bravo, that was two really good posts on the matter at hand.
I have buckets of discs, all ripped, and various dacs of various technologies/streamer capability.
For pleasure & relaxation I still happily use my CD player
I have buckets of discs, all ripped, and various dacs of various technologies/streamer capability.
For pleasure & relaxation I still happily use my CD player
Music freak
pfm Member
I thank you for your thoughts on the matter. I would say if a person has a excellent upper - echelon CD player unit right now, the best thing is to get it checked if it requires attention and 'stay with it' at this time.@MF: One aspect you missed... Corporates who are constantly looking for ways to stimulate market demand for music and adopting a "let's create a new distribution format/medium that will obsolete prior media and generate additional sales".
This started with CD (which promised "perfect sound - forever") being released and with a parallel driving down of LP production... Many early adopters of CD believed the slogan and ditched their LPs to re-buy the same titles on CD).
Then along came SACD and DVD-A which tried to emulate the tactics used to kick-start CD sales but failed.
Then there came iTunes and look-alikes which took into account the emerging "download generation" and CD sales started to slide downhill fast.
Highly compressed digital audio was not good enough for the audio freaks among us and their clamour for better SQ saw hi-res downloads enter the fray.
Each of these new media formats was an attempt by the corporates to repeat the "success" enjoyed by CD in its growth at the expense of vinyl - but, unfortunately for them, the market had been bitten a few times (once by CD, again by VHS to DVD and other similar moves in other areas) and the magnitude of the sales growth "humps" got smaller and smaller as people refused to be caught by the same ruse repeated over and over.
Nowadays, we have music-lovers who accept that their collections will, of necessity, comprise sections on different media formats and their audio system's structure and components are aligned to this mix of media with different source components - one for each media format.
At a guess, the OP wants to upgrade his CD player for two reasons: one, he has a decent collection of CDs with no intention of re-purchasing the same titles on some new medium; and two, he accepts the "multiple-medium" nature of his collection and is wanting to improve the reproduction quality for his CD collection.
And this why the suggestion was made to consider a CDT+DAC option, where the DAC could function as a digital source switch as well as converting digital source data into listenable analogue format - so that when any new titles are released and are only available on some medium other than CD, the replay infrastructure is geared - in part - to support a delta-based upgrade that integrates with the rest of the system via the DAC.
As a result, I have no intention of telling the lad that he is, in effect, an idiot for staying with what is an inferior media format - and that he should immediately re-think his decision to upgrade his CD player and, instead, spend a lot of his hard-earned cash on the infrastructure needed to play hi-res downloads and then to re-purchase all of the music he already has on CD.
Any purchase in times of technological flux can fall into one of three groupings:
1) Sticking to the technology that fits the media format (OP's request)
2) Abandon the media format and buy new technology and media (lots of posts)
3) Look for technology that can embrace/support both old and new
If this was NOT an audio question and NOT posted on PFM, which would you choose?
Dave
I would agree with anyone, thinking that the Hi Fi equipment market at the moment is 'in flux' and needs to quietly settle . Things are much clearer , right now- in regard to amps and speakers; but software.... is another matter.
IMHO. Things like SACD.. -I think, was 'a blue duck' from the very start. For it to be able and actually capable of sonically improve ALL existing recorded material held in record companies vaults was completely out of the question. Helped along on that path, by the very stringent technical demands genuine SACD requires .
SACD players also has distinctive technical capacity differences to CD players -when performing disc playing tasks. Then we hear of using 'Blu ray' as a sound-alone medium
A few of us are lucky enough, have purchased so much material over the years, it is time to simply conserve - pull up and play - 'what we have already got ...on our shelves.' -Whether it is vinyl , CD , DVD or Blu ray.
Personally , although having a wide variety of audio and visual equipment, ranging both towards the upper end of the mid range and higher scale... I refuse to carried along by some form of proscribed orthodoxy.
I can get the same 'kick' out of a multi channel all-stops -out film (with sub woofers) on a hefty brute of an AV amp / as I can with purist hi fi /or a nice bookshelf system playing some classic 50's opera recording -recorded In mono.
Enjoyment of the actual sounds we are always eager to hear , is much more important than sitting down each time and wanting to try to technically examine what we are hearing.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
If it must be a CD player and not a move to streaming, one of the best CD players I have heard in a long time is the Rega Isis, it really is excellent, and it's one box too so keeps things clean and simple... But a Linn Klimax renew DS will leave it standing.
Whaleblue
Southbound
My apologies for posting food for thought regards streaming. I imagine it must have been quite distracting at least, and imagine the OP now feeling rather harangued.
As a foil against possible corporate nastiness (you never know what they'll do), or other unforeseen events, I suggest a collection of 78s, and a wind up gramophone. You'd probably still be alright after an apocalypse, and certainly protected from the electric companies just suddenly deciding to switch you off.
As a foil against possible corporate nastiness (you never know what they'll do), or other unforeseen events, I suggest a collection of 78s, and a wind up gramophone. You'd probably still be alright after an apocalypse, and certainly protected from the electric companies just suddenly deciding to switch you off.
I looked into an alternative solution a few years ago. I had extensive home loan demos of DACs which I tried with my existing transport (my existing DAC was 16/44 and 16/48 only) and various computer streaming software.
The best sounding was the Resolution Audio Cantata Music centre, which was half the price of the Linn Klimax DS which was not as good and it is a CD player as well as having multiple digital inputs.
I like the styling too!
I bought one and almost only use it as a CD player, I find zero benefit in streaming and I hate tagging, a pointless and irritating waste of my valuable (to me) time. Without re-tagging everything classical music is much quicker and easier to for me to find on my CD rack than the computer.
The best sounding was the Resolution Audio Cantata Music centre, which was half the price of the Linn Klimax DS which was not as good and it is a CD player as well as having multiple digital inputs.
I like the styling too!
I bought one and almost only use it as a CD player, I find zero benefit in streaming and I hate tagging, a pointless and irritating waste of my valuable (to me) time. Without re-tagging everything classical music is much quicker and easier to for me to find on my CD rack than the computer.
per flemming
Registered User
Rega Isis (valve)
Sondek CD12
CDS3/555
Sondek CD12
CDS3/555
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
The CD12 is the best CD player I have ever heard, its the best looking too. They aren't easy to find though and when you do, they command a high price (£4.5k-£5.5k).
The ISIS valve is a really stunning player and still available new, you also have the peace of mind that comes with owning a Rega product, their customer support is second to none.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I replaced my CDS-II with a Densen B-400XS 11 years ago. I was never completely happy with the CDS, but the XS has been floating my musical boat since day one. You might like to consider a new B-440XS or the two-box B-475 if money is really burning a hole in your pocket.
Alternatively, if you're looking at second-hand stuff, I thought the Meridian G08.2 was very good if you can get past its slot-loading mechanism (no disc drawer).
Alternatively, if you're looking at second-hand stuff, I thought the Meridian G08.2 was very good if you can get past its slot-loading mechanism (no disc drawer).
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Had a Linn CD12 demonstrated alongside the CDS2 and another expensive CDP in my system at home over a few hours in the late nineties. The CD12 was head and shoulders over the others; very analogue in fact, but at £12K in its flight case, it was to be expected.
From Naim and Meridians (very good) I went to valve (Lector), and am now on my second Lector (4 box), where I'll be stopping. Valved CDPs are a different kettle of fish and certainly add something organic to an all or semi Naim system.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Let's kick off on the assumption that you DO want a CD player and NOT a lot of "dump your CDs and go for..." haranguing...
Next, let's accept that you currently use a Naim CDS II and now want to UPGRADE (i.e., you're looking for something better than your current player).
At this stage, a question needs to be answered as to your preferences between single-box integrated CD players and two-box, CD transport and D/A Converter.
The reason for asking is that a two-box configuration (if you pick the right combo) will provide more flexibility in terms of adding other digital source components such as audio media players (for Hi-Res file playback) and also allow integration with A/V via Toslink and - given that DAC technology is progressing faster than any other area right now - allow you to retain the transport while upgrading your DAC at some future date without having to upgrade the transport at the same time.
Another question relates to any preferences in country of origin of any new item - i.e. Would you prefer to buy British, irrespective of any better non-British options?
Next, an observation: Many manufacturers are moving away from Red-Book transport mechanisms and opting instead for multi-type optical devices capable of playing CD/DVD/SACD - which adds delays to start of play while the device first tries to determine the type of media inserted (also, may of these are rather cheap and nasty, having been sourced from the PC peripheral manufacturers). There are still a few manufacturers releasing CD players/transports that use dedicated Red-Book Cd transport mechanisms and it's worth including this as a priority requirement in your checklist.
Whatever you decide, SueP-T had a valuable contribution in his post above - when you buy your new CDP or CDT/DAC, buy a spare transport mechanism at the same time and keep it as insurance. (I did this twice - first with a Theta Data Basic II and its Philips CDM-9PRO mechanism and second with a Bryston BCD-1 and its Philips L1210 mechanism).
Finally, will await responses to questions above before drowning you in recommendations that don't map to your preferences...
Dave
Thank god.
An answer to the OP's question!
I definitely think you should listen to the top Densen CD players before you decide. I heard a B400xs in store many years ago and much preferred it to a CDS2 also on dem at the same time, bought it and have never regretted it. A couple of years ago I heard a b440xs against a Rega Isis, again in store, and preferred the Densen. The Isis was impressive but a bit clinical against the Densen.
I've not heard th 2 box Densen B475 but I'm told it's amazing
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I had a CD12 for a couple of years, a truly amazing player, iconic in fact. But as you rightly pointed out, it cost £12k new, so it bloody well ought to be.
colasblue
pfm Member
My CDSII must have moved on getting on for 15 years ago now!
It wasn't bad but since then I've been through
Tag DVD32R/chord DAC64, followed by
Tag DVD32R/BM DAC1, followed by
PC/BM DAC1 - PC went through assorted OS, hardvare and software upgrades, until
PC/BM DAC2 - PC has W7 and runs the dac with JRMC via pro sound card RME HDSP96/24sp/diff and ASIO II drivers.
If you absolutely must have a real time disc spinner then the way to go is one of the Auidiolab 8200 CDP's which use the same technology developed for the DVD32R and any of the current favoured DACs (or even just on its own).
You'll be pleasantly surprised by how much more you get for not a lot of outlay.
It wasn't bad but since then I've been through
Tag DVD32R/chord DAC64, followed by
Tag DVD32R/BM DAC1, followed by
PC/BM DAC1 - PC went through assorted OS, hardvare and software upgrades, until
PC/BM DAC2 - PC has W7 and runs the dac with JRMC via pro sound card RME HDSP96/24sp/diff and ASIO II drivers.
If you absolutely must have a real time disc spinner then the way to go is one of the Auidiolab 8200 CDP's which use the same technology developed for the DVD32R and any of the current favoured DACs (or even just on its own).
You'll be pleasantly surprised by how much more you get for not a lot of outlay.
radamel
Music Fiend
Although the 8200CD is very good considering its price it's not in the same league as some CD players the OP could buy within his budget.
I just upgraded from a 8200 CD to a Mytek Brooklyn DAC and a Cambridge CXC transport and there is a big big difference (especially via USB asynchronous).
If a DAC is of no use a Primare CD32 could also be a very good choice in terms of value for money. Its SQ is clearly better than the 8200CD's IMO.
"I can't help thinking that with the advent of Tidal, Quboz and so on lots of people will be selling their cd players"
I thought that when I sold my then 9-yr old Ikemi 5½ years ago for c.£840. They still sell for about exactly that now. At some point there will be a downturn but there is clearly still a worthy CD and CD player following.
I'd hope a couple of decent dealers would be happy to dem and recommend. I'd definitely have Meridian and Densen on my wishlist.
I thought that when I sold my then 9-yr old Ikemi 5½ years ago for c.£840. They still sell for about exactly that now. At some point there will be a downturn but there is clearly still a worthy CD and CD player following.
I'd hope a couple of decent dealers would be happy to dem and recommend. I'd definitely have Meridian and Densen on my wishlist.