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A high quality CD Player

naimplayer

Aspiring to be a halfwit.
I currently use a Naim CDS II CD player. Due to funds becoming available I am considering upgrading. Your opinions on something better would be greatly appreciated. I would invest up to 2500.00 for S/H say a CDS III or similar and about 5000.00 ish for new. Any suggestions?


I have Teddy PR1/MB100's & Shahinian Arcs all with teddy cable.

Thanking you in anticipation.
 
My shabby pfm response is that CD players have been obsolete for at least a decade. Any used machine will eventually hit transport availability issues and become an expensive doorstop. A computer/streamer/dac solution will be much more cost effective than a new so-called hi-end player and allow access to newer formats as well as enabling ripping of any legacy discs. Do not underestimate the attractions of 16/44 streaming/hi-res audio/internet radio. Much music I now listen to does not exist on CD or is much more expensive on that format due to fading demand - not to mention lower resolution. In the past, there were good arguments for buying a cassette player, reel-to-reel or 78 player as it was impossible to access music on these formats otherwise. That is simply not true with CD and expanding a big quietly rotting pile of polycarbonate is pointless - and doesn't equate to a vinyl collection IMO
 
Having gone from a CDS2 to a CDS3 many years ago, my advice would be don't bother. There are some who actually prefer the 2. Assuming you like the basic sound of the thing, the best investment is to look for a 555PS for it. I was flabbergasted by how big an upgrade that was, and I'd say the CDS2 with 555PS is one of the best CD sources I've ever heard.

Otherwise (and I appreciate this is probably mildly annoying), I'd look for a really good DAC (eg a Chord Hugo TT) and an ok transport. That way you're ready for streaming and hi res if you want to go down that route in future.
 
My shabby pfm response is that CD players have been obsolete for at least a decade. Any used machine will eventually hit transport availability issues and become an expensive doorstop....

Which is why I bought a spare transport mechanism when I got the Audiolab 8200cdq.:p Should see me out I hope.

That review seems to suggest the way to go is get a good versatile dac and use a decent transport into it rather than an all in one special purpose device?
 
I'd take a look at the Accuphase players. The current generation is amazing. Entry-level CD410 is around £4.5k, but is easily the best player I've heard at anything like that price. The 560 and above also do SACD, where the 410 doesn't.

There's a lightly-used 410 for sale at The Audioworks, at the moment.

Also Accuphase, I understand, make their own transports, so I'd be more relaxed about spares support.
 
My shabby pfm response is that CD players have been obsolete for at least a decade. Any used machine will eventually hit transport availability issues and become an expensive doorstop. A computer/streamer/dac solution will be much more cost effective than a new so-called hi-end player and allow access to newer formats as well as enabling ripping of any legacy discs. Do not underestimate the attractions of 16/44 streaming/hi-res audio/internet radio. Much music I now listen to does not exist on CD or is much more expensive on that format due to fading demand - not to mention lower resolution. In the past, there were good arguments for buying a cassette player, reel-to-reel or 78 player as it was impossible to access music on these formats otherwise. That is simply not true with CD and expanding a big quietly rotting pile of polycarbonate is pointless - and doesn't equate to a vinyl collection IMO
I agree with most of this. It really doesn't make much sense to lash out that sort of sum on a CD player nowadays. CDs are remarkably cheap S/H at the moment (buy them, rip them, store as backup if you like) but that won't last. For that sort of money you can get a first-class computer/DAC type thing and have far more flexibility, as well as potentially better sound quality.
 
Please accept this as friendly input, to be ignored or considered as you so please...

I'd suggest you look at Roon plus whatever hardware you'd need to run it, and be able to rip bit-perfect copies (use DBPoweramp).

Roon: https://roonlabs.com/index.html and https://roonlabs.com/pricing.html
DBPowerAmp: https://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper.htm

In fact, to be honest I'd go the whole hog and subscribe to Tidal too - then you only have to rip the stuff you really need to (favourite CD masters etc.). That's what I've done and I am not looking back.

Tidal: http://tidal.com/gb/try-now
 
Well I had a demo of a set up last year. One of the 'Home Cinema Club' had ripped all his cds to a - whatever ? The whatever ( pc/separate hard disc drive/solid state memory - flac files ?- cant recall) was feeding into a Naim Dac , PA and SBLs.
He demo'd a comparison of ripped tracks vs the cd tracks ( cd or dvd player as transport I think into Naim Dac).
It was well funny. The cd sounded quite a bit better , every time. I nearly spilt my beer laughing. He must have made a mess up somewhere along the line perhaps. Some of his high res playback sounded real good though. Not all mind you. Still , he wanted to free up space and have that convenience. Not I.

I'll be sticking with my 3000 cd's for a very long time indeed. I like the physical medium though and have the space to accommodate. Might check out vinyl at some point too.
My favourite cd players are currently cds3/ RA Opus 21 , Cyrus cd8x , Exposure cdp and Marantz 63KI, Denon dcd1560 - oh , and a Benchmark mk1. I own this little lot - crazy , I know.
I also think the cds3 is quite a bit ahead of cds2.And it will be serviceable for many , many years. I had a cds2 years ago. I did like it . Would like a listen to a Rega Isis too.
 
My shabby pfm response is that CD players have been obsolete for at least a decade. Any used machine will eventually hit transport availability issues and become an expensive doorstop. A computer/streamer/dac solution will be much more cost effective than a new so-called hi-end player and allow access to newer formats as well as enabling ripping of any legacy discs. Do not underestimate the attractions of 16/44 streaming/hi-res audio/internet radio. Much music I now listen to does not exist on CD or is much more expensive on that format due to fading demand - not to mention lower resolution. In the past, there were good arguments for buying a cassette player, reel-to-reel or 78 player as it was impossible to access music on these formats otherwise. That is simply not true with CD and expanding a big quietly rotting pile of polycarbonate is pointless - and doesn't equate to a vinyl collection IMO
How is the computer/day going to handle the sleeve notes from the Cds? Is there any cataloguing software that handles classical music competently?
 
Roon does sleeve notes better than sleeve notes do sleeve notes.

You're right regards classical though. It's a mess.
 
Can highly recommend the Rega Isis for sound quality and with 2 spare laser units archived at the factory it should have a very long lifespan.

Hopefully mine will see me out !
 
You're right regards classical though. It's a mess.

I've re-tagged all my classical CD rips. Of course it's a huge PITA, but I'd still rather that than deal with CDs.

Unfortunately it still leaves the problem of messed-up tagging on streaming services (I use Qobuz Classical). Searching for stuff is horribly hit and miss.
 
For the money that the OP has I would go the computer audio route. I did and haven't looked back. I have a Mac Mini with Amarra as a music server feeding a Weiss DAC 202. That is a top notch combo and comes in at around £5K new or about half of that s/h. You have to remember that a CD player is a transport plus a DAC. With a CA combo you are not locked into to any one CD transport and a bog standard PC CD player is good enough and you can buy some music over the web without the need of the CD.

I run this combo against my top notch vinyl system that cost around four times as much. Oh and I have the Obs 2.


Cheers,

DV
 
I currently use a Naim CDS II CD player. Due to funds becoming available I am considering upgrading. Your opinions on something better would be greatly appreciated. I would invest up to 2500.00 for S/H say a CDS III or similar and about 5000.00 ish for new. Any suggestions? I have Teddy PR1/MB100's & Shahinian Arcs all with teddy cable.

Let's kick off on the assumption that you DO want a CD player and NOT a lot of "dump your CDs and go for..." haranguing...

Next, let's accept that you currently use a Naim CDS II and now want to UPGRADE (i.e., you're looking for something better than your current player).

At this stage, a question needs to be answered as to your preferences between single-box integrated CD players and two-box, CD transport and D/A Converter.

The reason for asking is that a two-box configuration (if you pick the right combo) will provide more flexibility in terms of adding other digital source components such as audio media players (for Hi-Res file playback) and also allow integration with A/V via Toslink and - given that DAC technology is progressing faster than any other area right now - allow you to retain the transport while upgrading your DAC at some future date without having to upgrade the transport at the same time.

Another question relates to any preferences in country of origin of any new item - i.e. Would you prefer to buy British, irrespective of any better non-British options?

Next, an observation: Many manufacturers are moving away from Red-Book transport mechanisms and opting instead for multi-type optical devices capable of playing CD/DVD/SACD - which adds delays to start of play while the device first tries to determine the type of media inserted (also, may of these are rather cheap and nasty, having been sourced from the PC peripheral manufacturers). There are still a few manufacturers releasing CD players/transports that use dedicated Red-Book Cd transport mechanisms and it's worth including this as a priority requirement in your checklist.

Whatever you decide, SueP-T had a valuable contribution in his post above - when you buy your new CDP or CDT/DAC, buy a spare transport mechanism at the same time and keep it as insurance. (I did this twice - first with a Theta Data Basic II and its Philips CDM-9PRO mechanism and second with a Bryston BCD-1 and its Philips L1210 mechanism).

Finally, will await responses to questions above before drowning you in recommendations that don't map to your preferences... :)

Dave
 
My shabby pfm response is that CD players have been obsolete for at least a decade. Any used machine will eventually hit transport availability issues and become an expensive doorstop. A computer/streamer/dac solution will be much more cost effective than a new so-called hi-end player and allow access to newer formats as well as enabling ripping of any legacy discs. Do not underestimate the attractions of 16/44 streaming/hi-res audio/internet radio. Much music I now listen to does not exist on CD or is much more expensive on that format due to fading demand - not to mention lower resolution. In the past, there were good arguments for buying a cassette player, reel-to-reel or 78 player as it was impossible to access music on these formats otherwise. That is simply not true with CD and expanding a big quietly rotting pile of polycarbonate is pointless - and doesn't equate to a vinyl collection IMO
I'd suggest going the streaming route too, I wasn't keen on the idea initially but I heard a Linn Akurate DS in my own system and decided it was time to bite the bullet. The initial setup process is a ball ache, ripping 300+ CDs and making sure they are correctly tagged is no walk in the park, but I'm glad I did. The sound that can be had from a Linn Klimax renew DS is amazing for the money if you can live with the plain black metal box.
 
Wait till we hear of such computer storage programs , that are no longer supported , incompatible, nor retrievable. Today, the so-called mod thing in Hi Fi - is behaving like some fleeing fearful figure , never satisfied nor wanting to enjoy " the present". Scurrying off to some place in computer wonderland , chasing and searching for every alleged new advance, that someone suggests for storage.. Overlooking the fact that they may in fact - in the process - be really scattering, their precious collected associated physical belongings (their music ) - bit by bit - into some next technical "obsolescent vanishing".

Decades ago, I was into such practices in Hi-fi . Always wanting to be 'the first on the block' with all the latest innovations . Looking back, attempting to keep up with the latest proclaimed progress, it was not worth the time, trouble, or money. After a while, you find yourself with quite a collection of silly useless objects taking up -even bigger space than some disc collections. For a possible true foretaste of what I am driving at, with music content- observe that great media panacea they call "visual streaming and music downloading".
Not only does the user have to have a digital TV screen but pay some computer company for 'usually unlimited download capacity usage' to provide the material to a consumer.
The moment the Rights holder of non physical computerised content shuts down access....'its curtains!' Why do I keep hearing the title of that song called "Puff the magic dragon"?

I prefer to be in total control...with the material- physically in my possession at all times.

The great dream of Corporates with their restricting copyrights and district region controls - - but NOT to let people actually buy use / and own music and film material...or, to just prevent piracy . It is, to find some method of turning the whole business whether music or film -into corporate -beneficial ,computerised cross-platform 'money in the slot...juke box ',models . Where the user-keeps paying for use - via allied forms of 'rental use' ad -infinitum.
 
For 5k new you have the Esoteric K-07X.

It is a great SACD-CD player and DAC.

That would be my first choice. Should you want to upgrade it down the line adding an external 10Mhz clock improves its SQ even further.
 
Let's kick off on the assumption that you DO want a CD player and NOT a lot of "dump your CDs and go for..." haranguing...

Next, let's accept that you currently use a Naim CDS II and now want to UPGRADE (i.e., you're looking for something better than your current player).

At this stage, a question needs to be answered as to your preferences between single-box integrated CD players and two-box, CD transport and D/A Converter.

The reason for asking is that a two-box configuration (if you pick the right combo) will provide more flexibility in terms of adding other digital source components such as

audio media players (for Hi-Res file playback) and also allow integration with A/V via Toslink and - given that DAC technology is progressing faster than any other area right now - allow you to retain the transport while upgrading your DAC at some future date without having to upgrade the transport at the same time.


Another question relates to any preferences in country of origin of any new item - i.e. Would you prefer to buy British, irrespective of any better non-British options?

Next, an observation: Many manufacturers are moving away from Red-Book transport mechanisms and opting instead for multi-type optical devices capable of playing CD/DVD/SACD - which adds delays to start of play while the device first tries to determine the type of media inserted (also, may of these are rather cheap and nasty, having been sourced from the PC peripheral manufacturers). There are still a few manufacturers releasing CD players/transports that use dedicated Red-Book Cd transport mechanisms and it's worth including this as a priority requirement in your checklist.

Whatever you decide, SueP-T had a valuable contribution in his post above - when you buy your new CDP or CDT/DAC, buy a spare transport mechanism at the same time and keep it as insurance. (I did this twice - first with a Theta Data Basic II and its Philips CDM-9PRO mechanism and second with a Bryston BCD-1 and its Philips L1210 mechanism).

Finally, will await responses to questions above before drowning you in recommendations that don't map to your preferences... :)

Dave


I have no particular preference for one or two box configurations, but reading your ideas two may well prove more effective. I have no preconceptions about country of origin and the suggestion of a spare mechanism is sound. I do not yet wish to go down the tidal/pc/dac route already propounded by others. Thank you for your contributions but until my son sorts his own system out I'm not visiting there.
I simply seek an upgrade from the existing unit to some thing better if it is yet available. If however its not then I shall look for a spare laser & hope that it will all outlive me.
 
@MF: One aspect you missed... Corporates who are constantly looking for ways to stimulate market demand for music and adopting a "let's create a new distribution format/medium that will obsolete prior media and generate additional sales".

This started with CD (which promised "perfect sound - forever") being released and with a parallel driving down of LP production... Many early adopters of CD believed the slogan and ditched their LPs to re-buy the same titles on CD).

Then along came SACD and DVD-A which tried to emulate the tactics used to kick-start CD sales but failed.

Then there came iTunes and look-alikes which took into account the emerging "download generation" and CD sales started to slide downhill fast.

Highly compressed digital audio was not good enough for the audio freaks among us and their clamour for better SQ saw hi-res downloads enter the fray.

Each of these new media formats was an attempt by the corporates to repeat the "success" enjoyed by CD in its growth at the expense of vinyl - but, unfortunately for them, the market had been bitten a few times (once by CD, again by VHS to DVD and other similar moves in other areas) and the magnitude of the sales growth "humps" got smaller and smaller as people refused to be caught by the same ruse repeated over and over.

Nowadays, we have music-lovers who accept that their collections will, of necessity, comprise sections on different media formats and their audio system's structure and components are aligned to this mix of media with different source components - one for each media format.

At a guess, the OP wants to upgrade his CD player for two reasons: one, he has a decent collection of CDs with no intention of re-purchasing the same titles on some new medium; and two, he accepts the "multiple-medium" nature of his collection and is wanting to improve the reproduction quality for his CD collection.

And this why the suggestion was made to consider a CDT+DAC option, where the DAC could function as a digital source switch as well as converting digital source data into listenable analogue format - so that when any new titles are released and are only available on some medium other than CD, the replay infrastructure is geared - in part - to support a delta-based upgrade that integrates with the rest of the system via the DAC.

As a result, I have no intention of telling the lad that he is, in effect, an idiot for staying with what is an inferior media format - and that he should immediately re-think his decision to upgrade his CD player and, instead, spend a lot of his hard-earned cash on the infrastructure needed to play hi-res downloads and then to re-purchase all of the music he already has on CD.

Any purchase in times of technological flux can fall into one of three groupings:

1) Sticking to the technology that fits the media format (OP's request)
2) Abandon the media format and buy new technology and media (lots of posts)
3) Look for technology that can embrace/support both old and new

If this was NOT an audio question and NOT posted on PFM, which would you choose? :)

Dave
 


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