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Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

chiily said:
Isn't all marketing evil to some degree? It is certainly not for consumer's benefit really, it is there to sell stuff into a mature market place and extract money out of consumers' wallets.

So, have we arrived at the end stop for foo hifi? It is just another vein of marketing, the power of consumerism and the weakest of the mind.

Stop yourself, and ask, "can a polished rock on top of a speaker really change the sound of my hifi?". Shake your head. Then relax because you've dodged a marketing bullet.

We are gullible animals...
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Oh dear. We are perilously close to agreeing on some things, note to self to correct course!

I can't help you with your self-worth angst :), earning your living from marketing as you do... but at least we can have an adult conversation now.

No, I don't think all marketing is evil to some degree; at one end of the spectrum it is simply awareness-raising. But at the other, it is deeply cynical and exploitative eg green dots on CD's, rocks on speakers... how can I say this? Because there is simply no mechanism I know of by which such things can make a difference.

As you recognise, every enterprise in a competitive market has to get its message out there. It's either take some market share from the incumbents or close the business: don't employ more people, sack the ones you do employ, make no contribution to the economy in the slightest.

Ideally this messaging will be based on some actual (sometimes marginal, sometimes purely aesthetic) improvements in the product rather than just a marketing respray. Think car manufacturers: yes they sell lifestyle aspirations rather than a polluting depreciating asset but quite often there is something different in the product to talk about.

What I can tell you is that there is absolutely nothing in my own business plans which is cynical or exploitative. I have taken a hifi component which does something and improved upon it. You can guffaw as much as you want but that wouldn't be fair as you know absolutely nothing about what I've been working on. Feel free to pop in for a cuppa.
 
sq225917 said:
I'm sure researchers would prefer a cure, or a high efficacy vaccine, you know like every vaccine before the covid one's.

But that's not what reaches the market, treatments reach the market because there's no money in a cure.

Let's play a game, what are you 3 favourite cures since 1970.
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Have you ever worked in pharmaceuticals like I have?
 
chiily said:
Isn't all marketing evil to some degree? It is certainly not for consumer's benefit really, it is there to sell stuff into a mature market place and extract money out of consumers' wallets.

So, have we arrived at the end stop for foo hifi? It is just another vein of marketing, the power of consumerism and the weakest of the mind.

Stop yourself, and ask, "can a polished rock on top of a speaker really change the sound of my hifi?". Shake your head. Then relax because you've dodged a marketing bullet.

We are gullible animals...
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We disagree. It can be there for the mutual good of producer and consumer. It often isn't but that doesn't mean it never is.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
A thought for you: companies hate competition and try to evade or stifle it in many ways. In this instance, the board of company 6, representing the shareholders, might be obliged to accept an advantageous buyout offer for their shares from company 1, gaining great profit immediately, without the effort, delays, and risk of actually marketing the cure.
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..and that happens every time a company happens to find a cure for something?

We are going nowhere here, and crapping on someone’s thread. There’s a long thread a while back where this was covered and it ended with the accusation that any scientist that joined pharma either became a liar or totally naive the moment that they signed a contract. I will simply say that in 25 years in a top 20 pharma with 10 years of that on teams* that made decisions what drugs were or were not developed, I do not recognise that what you suggest happened either in my company or other big pharma companies where I had friends in senior positions. I accept that does not mean it has never happened, but those same shareholders that you argue would take the money I suspect would be annoyed that a breakthrough had been abandoned.

* I realise that anyone could write that, so I’ll make the same offer I made elsewhere - to provide my cv, list of published papers, certificates and letter of recommendation from my previous employer to a moderator.
 
We appear to have gone down a rabbit hole... if we're now questioning the ethos, motivation etc of the whole competitive capitalist system then I guess we've done withn switches!

[not responding to previous post by hc25036].
 
TheFlash said:
We appear to have gone down a rabbit hole... if we're now questioning the ethos, motivation etc of the whole competitive capitalist system then I guess we've done withn switches!

[not responding to previous post by hc25036].
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No more from me (about pharma anyway :rolleyes:), I promise.
 
TheFlash said:
We appear to have gone down a rabbit hole... if we're now questioning the ethos, motivation etc of the whole competitive capitalist system then I guess we've done withn switches!

[not responding to previous post by hc25036].
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I think the nature and drive of capitalism is marketing and convincing someone that something makes a change, whether it does or not, is marketing. Do you not think?

Like the blue pill, red pill experiment. Students were told that the red pill would make them agitated and blue pill would make them calm. Marketing the effects of the pills. And low, it came to pass that the majority of students with the red pills reported that they were more agitated over the week and the blue pills taker reported that they were more calm.

If you re-write that in to, this stone makes your hifi better, or this switch makes your hifi better, it makes one wonder where the truth actually lies. :)
 
chiily said:
I think the nature and drive of capitalism is marketing and convincing someone that something makes a change, whether it does or not, is marketing. Do you not think?

Like the blue pill, red pill experiment. Students were told that the red pill would make them agitated and blue pill would make them calm. Marketing the effects of the pills. And low, it came to pass that the majority of students with the red pills reported that they were more agitated over the week and the blue pills taker reported that they were more calm.

If you re-write that in to, this stone makes your hifi better, or this switch makes your hifi better, it makes one wonder where the truth actually lies. :)
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There's a bit - ok, a lot - of empty marketing guff out there to be sure; I reckon 90%+ of adverts are trying to convince us that one type of butter or margarine will bring meaning to our empty lives, that this car will give us more sex appeal and success aura than that car etc: basically where the marketing message is pretty detached from reality. I'm not sure much of this is as deeply exploitative as some would have it, but it's clearly aimed at making us feel dissatisfied and directing our money their way rather than anywhere else.

The red and blue pill experiment is an extreme example as this was 100% marketing and 0% efficacy. I couldn't personally sleep at night if I was basically conning people by bullshitting them. I'd like to think most people in the hifi trade genuinely believe they have something different to offer, though I'm afraid I've seen clear evidence that some companies are taking the mickey big time ie. they surely can't actually believe their products are so much better than the competition or they wouldn't need the manipulative shenanigans of "tests" using different volume levels or whatever.

If that applied to the whole industry, I wouldn't consider being a part of it any more than I'd consider spending my days calling people up and telling them I'm from their bank or broadband provider and I need them to take action...
 
TheFlash said:
There's a bit - ok, a lot - of empty marketing guff out there to be sure; I reckon 90%+ of adverts are trying to convince us that one type of butter or margarine will bring meaning to our empty lives, that this car will give us more sex appeal and success aura than that car etc: basically where the marketing message is pretty detached from reality. I'm not sure much of this is as deeply exploitative as some would have it, but it's clearly aimed at making us feel dissatisfied and directing our money their way rather than anywhere else.

The red and blue pill experiment is an extreme example as this was 100% marketing and 0% efficacy. I couldn't personally sleep at night if I was basically conning people by bullshitting them. I'd like to think most people in the hifi trade genuinely believe they have something different to offer, though I'm afraid I've seen clear evidence that some companies are taking the mickey big time ie. they surely can't actually believe their products are so much better than the competition or they wouldn't need the manipulative shenanigans of "tests" using different volume levels or whatever.

If that applied to the whole industry, I wouldn't consider being a part of it any more than I'd consider spending my days calling people up and telling them I'm from their bank or broadband provider and I need them to take action...
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I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Some people do take the micky I agree and unfortunately, for me because I can see no mechanism for effect, network switches fall into that bucket on the lack of evidence. Okay, I can understand and accept that people can hear the difference. However, for me there is a clear linkage between hearing something and capturing that something through imperical measurement. My imagination is clearly being stifled by my scientific background :)

Very happy to agree to differ...

Shall we talk about the flat earth now? :p:cool:
 
People do not like to hear that collusion and other mischief in restraint of trade happens. I submit that it has and does. We live in corrupt times. I admit to a very cynical attitude toward advertising, I regard most of it as an attempt to prey upon me, or more vulnerable people. And with that comment I will shut up in this thread.
 
The list is endless...

UK drug companies fined £260m for inflating prices for NHS
Watchdog issues warning after abuses that included paying would-be rivals to stay out of the market
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/15/uk-drug-companies-fined-260m-overcharging-nhs

Watchdog fines Pfizer and Flynn £70m for overcharging NHS for epilepsy drug
Penalties come after an in-depth investigation carried out by the Competition and Markets Authority
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nn-70m-for-overcharging-nhs-for-epilepsy-drug

Drug firms giving MPs ‘hidden’ funding, research shows
Pharmaceutical industry has “hidden web of policy influence” over dozens of all-party parliamentary groups
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/25/drug-firms-giving-mps-hidden-funding-research-shows
 
DonQuixote99 said:
People do not like to hear that collusion and other mischief in restraint of trade happens. I submit that it has and does. We live in corrupt times. I admit to a very cynical attitude toward advertising, I regard most of it as an attempt to prey upon me, or more vulnerable people. And with that comment I will shut up in this thread.
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Unfortunately there’s no money to be made in telling people to be happy with what they already have. Throw it away, get the latest and greatest!
 
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