Audiophile Network Switches for Streaming ... really ?

[tuga]

Some may find PKane's topic on ASR called "Is DAC ultrasonic/RF output important?" interesting.

 

[sq225917]

@Fourlegs can you tell us please what frequencies these IMPs are at and a sweep, Freq against level of said IMPs and noise. Ta.

He hasn't answered because he doesn't know what IMP means. He'll ask someone now and be back with a dismissive answer and personal snipe soon.

 

[chiily]

Some may find PKane's topic on ASR called "Is DAC ultrasonic/RF output important?" interesting.

Can you post a quick summary of why it is interesting?

 

[chiily]

An RF spectrum analyser is pretty much useless for audio applications.

Sorry, it was much generalising.

 

[sq225917]

Can you post a quick summary of why it is interesting?

Because the only conclusion it yields is that measuring stuff be more complicated than we's thinking it is.

 

[TheFlash]

You know, one could make that argument. Exploiter and parasite are dirty words too. I doubt that most 'objectivists' are there, even disregarding the Randist irony, but there certainly are marketing efforts that make the argument.

I had to look up Randist.

 

[miktec]

... looks to me like a good time to have a party on this thread
One of the greatest songs by one of the greatest bands evah!

(although the double irony may be lost on some )

TURN IT UP !!!!

 

[TheFlash]

I've tried looking the other way, going for a walk and sitting on my hands, but I can't keep quiet any more. There are arguments - including getting narky and/or personal - about noise getting into and affecting (or not) the sound of superbly manufactured equipment and how that might or might not be happening. And yet, and yet, and yet the elephant in the room, which has been scientifically examined and proven time and time again over decades and which cannot be excluded from any of the assessments is forgotten or misrepresented as something which is in the control of the assessor.

I get that this is fun - until tempers get frayed - but there is ultimately never going to never going to be an end to the argument other than the wise words of @miktec in posts #1093 and 1095 above. Just accept that differences will be heard or not heard and that is no way of knowing/proving the cause or whether it is even real. Just enjoy some music.

You mean stop trying to prove the other "side" wrong? He started it! (Now where's that irony emoji when you need it?)

Seriously, sign me up.

I'm happy to accept that some people don't/won't/can't hear a difference in their system.

I have never ever claimed, nor do I think anyone else has, that every system can be improved through the installation of a switch.

The narkiness arises directly from others claiming that either because they've tried it themselves and/or because they don't/can't/won't understand how there could possibly be a difference in any system then there simply can't be a difference in any system, and those who disagree are disingeuous, or foo-merchants, or exploiters, or whatever other perjorative term one chooses and uses by preference. That's what grates, the sweeping generalisation.

 

[miktec]

The narkiness arises directly from others claiming that either because they've tried it themselves and/or because they don't/can't/won't understand how there could possibly be a difference in any system then there simply can't be a difference in any system, and those who disagree are disingeuous, or foo-merchants, or exploiters, or whatever other perjorative term one chooses and uses by preference. That's what grates, the sweeping generalisation.

The narkiness has gone both ways mate - and I would say in fairly equal tit-for-tat fashion throughout ....

Time to all just chill down and smoke whatever peace pipe rocks your boat ... and dig those toons man

Here's Buddy Holly in stonkin' rockabilly form (great sax solo too...)

 

[DonQuixote99]

I had to look up Randist.

Your innocence in this case is to your credit. But the irony of course is that the Randite Objectivists absolutely worship profit, marketing, and selling.

 

[sq225917]

I too had to look it up, think you were referring to the Great Randi (James), who would be a more applicable reference in this case, than Ms Rand whose objectivism has a completely different definition to that used in Audio circles.

 

[DonQuixote99]

I too had to look it up, think you were referring to the Great Randi (James), who would be a more applicable reference in this case, than Ms Rand whose objectivism has a completely different definition to that used in Audio circles.

Well, saying 'objectivists' think profit, marketing and selling are dirty words just created a sharp disconnect in my old and badly polluted mind. So I had to comment. I do get your point about the very Amazing Randi, of course.

 

[chiily]

The narkiness arises directly from others claiming that either because they've tried it themselves and/or because they don't/can't/won't understand how there could possibly be a difference in any system then there simply can't be a difference in any system, and those who disagree are disingeuous, or foo-merchants, or exploiters, or whatever other perjorative term one chooses and uses by preference. That's what grates, the sweeping generalisation.

Apologies for labouring a point, it is down to a difference only some people can't take someone's else's word for it, and would like it written down, else the difference is just gossip and hearsay. Some people are not convinced of that. The narkiness comes from the lack of capturing the effect in an standard format, just providing some acceptable evidence; maybe that's just a personal trait

Anyway, music is music and I don't care if anyone thinks Forte IVs are shouty, mine aren't...

I'm going to dig out an old network switch and prove you all wrong...*evil laugh*.

 

[NRG]

“But please do say what you think is different in the various streamers that would mean they sound different when they are connected to the same DAC in the same system”


Processing, re sampling, post filter phase response, digital volume control, attenuation or any other manipulation of the data pre transmission. Different on board USB implementations, termination etc. I know I can change the sound of my set up by manipulating the above in Squeezelite, this is much more repeatable and identifiable than any suggested noise on the Ethernet cable.

 

[Fourlegs]

“But please do say what you think is different in the various streamers that would mean they sound different when they are connected to the same DAC in the same system”

Processing, re sampling, post filter phase response, digital volume control, attenuation or any other manipulation of the data pre transmission. Different on board USB implementations, termination etc. I know I can change the sound of my set up by manipulating the above in Squeezelite, this is much more repeatable and identifiable than any suggested noise on the Ethernet cable.

Thanks for the response. I was really trying to draw out thoughts as to why different streamers sound different and should have added the rider even when all processing, re sampling, post filter phase response, digital volume control, attenuation or any other manipulation of the data pre transmission is disabled and none is undertaken. I also pointed to how two streamers (Innuos Zen and Zenith) which are identical apart from their different internal LPS can also sound quite different. I was really wondering whether looking at the mechanism for that that sound difference might give some insight as to why the Innuos PhoenixNET seems to have such a marked effect on all the Innuos streamers including their top Statement.

 

[miktec]

I was really wondering whether looking at the mechanism for that that sound difference might give some insight as to why the Innuos PhoenixNET seems to have such a marked effect on all the Innuos streamers including their top Statement.

Why don't you ask Nuno from Innuous to explain if you are genuinely curious... it seems you have a direct line

You have been in contact before apparently and he would be best placed to give you the ins and outs of his technology ....

....one you posted earlier in this thread:
#367

Nuno from Innuos replied to my email yesterday, quite promptly as it happens and in some depth regarding the assurances from some that noise can get no further than the ethernet interface. Let’s just say that despite the absolute assertions made by some on here I am now sufficiently confident to say that one cannot rely on the ethernet interface in a device acting as a firewall to prevent all noise from the copper ethernet cables progressing beyond that interface.

 

[sq225917]

"Seems"

 

[NRG]

“I also pointed to how two streamers (Innuos Zen and Zenith) which are identical apart from their different internal LPS can also sound quite different”

…They’re not telling you everything? Given the proprietary build of both items maybe they have different software parameters set in each to provide better sound from one model to the next ‘improved’ model.

 

[chiily]

“I also pointed to how two streamers (Innuos Zen and Zenith) which are identical apart from their different internal LPS can also sound quite different”

…They’re not telling you everything? Given the proprietary build of both items maybe they have different software parameters set in each to provide better sound from one model to the next ‘improved’ model.

Indeed, companies have to "build" an upgrade ladder, how else do they maintain revenue.

Sometimes I do wonder why people get sucked in. It is marketing magic.

 

[sq225917]

Its called product ranging, I spend a reasonable amount of my work day doing just this. Spec building, feature listing, product differentiating, pricing, etc. Its how stuff gets sold, upgrade paths created and lifetime customers won.