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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

paulfromcamden said:
Well I wasn't expecting this.

Social media is full of people calling for a boycott of M&S after they posted an outtake from their Xmas ad that appears to show a woman with eye make-up in the colours of the Israeli flag burning party hats in the colours of the Palestinian flag.

tribune.com.pk

Marks & Spencer apologise for 'Palestinian flag being burnt' post | The Express Tribune

Brand released a statement after the now-deleted post was slammed
tribune.com.pk tribune.com.pk
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Is everyone going mad? The eyeliner is gold and blue (not white and blue) and the burning paper is green, white and red. I'm surprised the Italian ambassador has not complained.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Well I wasn't expecting this.

Social media is full of people calling for a boycott of M&S after they posted an outtake from their Xmas ad that appears to show a woman with eye make-up in the colours of the Israeli flag burning party hats in the colours of the Palestinian flag.

tribune.com.pk

Marks & Spencer apologise for 'Palestinian flag being burnt' post | The Express Tribune

Brand released a statement after the now-deleted post was slammed
tribune.com.pk tribune.com.pk
Click to expand...
I think the ad has been pulled now. Guilty as charged:

www.bbc.co.uk

M&S pulls Christmas advert post after Palestinian flag criticism

M&S says sorry after a backlash claiming its advert depicted Palestinian flag colours in flames.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
gavreid said:

​


There's more in this interview. This statement is really striking:

“usually the most difficult part of proving genocide is intent”, but that this was not the case with Israeli leaders “explicitly and “publicly” stating their position. “It’s on the public record,” Mokhiber said.

[US President] Joe Biden has recently said that after this conflict is over, we need to get back to a two-state solution. In your letter, you say the mantra of a two-state solution has become, and I quote, an open joke in the corridors of the United Nations where we are sitting right now. Is it really an open joke in the corridors of the United Nations?

Yes, and it has been for quite a long time, if you ask somebody in their official capacity about the two states, and they will repeat that phrase over and over again as the official position of the United Nations. Indeed, that is the official position of the United States. But nobody who follows these circumstances either from the political side or from the human rights side believes that a two-state solution is possible anymore.

There’s nothing left for a Palestinian state that would be sustainable or just or were possible in any respect, and everyone knows that.

And secondly, that solution never dealt with the problem of the fundamental human rights of Palestinians. So for example, it would leave them as second-class citizens without full human rights inside what is now Israel proper.

[Yet the naive continue to regurgitate the 2 state solution in line with the US]

www.aljazeera.com

Q&A: UN official who quit over Gaza response on war and genocide

Human rights expert says UN must hold Israel accountable for its military actions in Gaza.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
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As far as I can see it leaves precisely no wriggle room whatsoever for either the myth of the ‘two state solution,’ illusions in Biden as some sort of cautious restraint on Netenyahu, or any more Zionist apologia.

In 1999, the most outstanding Palestinian intellectual of his generation, Edward Said, wrote

“There are Israeli Jews today who speak candidly about ''post-Zionism,'' insofar as after 50 years of Israeli history, classic Zionism has neither provided a solution to the Palestinian presence nor an exclusively Jewish presence. I see no other way than to begin now to speak about sharing the land that has thrust us together, sharing it in a truly democratic way, with equal rights for each citizen. There can be no reconciliation unless both peoples, two communities of suffering, resolve that their existence is a secular fact, and that it has to be dealt with as such.

This does not mean a diminishing of Jewish life as Jewish life or a surrendering of Palestinian Arab aspirations and political existence. On the contrary, it means self-determination for both peoples. But it does mean being willing to soften, lessen and finally give up special status for one people at the expense of the other. The Law of Return for Jews and the right of return for Palestinian refugees have to be considered and trimmed together. Both the notions of Greater Israel as the land of the Jewish people given to them by God and of Palestine as an Arab land that cannot be alienated from the Arab homeland need to be reduced in scale and exclusivity.”
 
PaulMB said:
Is everyone going mad? The eyeliner is gold and blue (not white and blue) and the burning paper is green, white and red. I'm surprised the Italian ambassador has not complained.
Click to expand...
And from what I can tell the shot of the eye being used actually belongs to Sophie Ellis-Bextor not Hannah Waddingham anyway.

Yes, it all seems completely bonkers to me too.

Al Quds News have been reporting it as a 'Mark’s and Spencer’s Pro-Israeli Apartheid advertisements'.
 
Fatmarley said:
What's the real truth?

From watching a number of Palestinian and Jewish Israelis being interviewed on YouTube, it seems complicated. Most don't want war, and say they are equal, but as with most religious people, their religion is the right one. Although it's the governments that are doing the warmongering, I see it as a clash of religions that's dividing people. They just take it so seriously, that it's a way of life for many of them.

What would be telling, was if the Palestinians had the upper hand - Would they be fair to the Jews?

This absolutely doesn't take away how I feel about the poor, innocent people. I found it difficult to sleep last night thinking about children that are buried alive, crying for their parents. Heartbreaking.
Click to expand...

Jews had little problem living throughout the Muslim world for centuries. Including after Jews were kicked out of Spain by Christians in 1492.
The problems started with the taking of Palestinian land and especially after foundation of apartheid state of Israel in 1948.
After 70 years of appalling cruelty to Palestinians I don't know if they could now be 'fair to the Jews'. What does that even mean ?
 
Interesting programme by Rory Stewart essentially about the creation of borders. The programme focuses on the Scottish border but has relevance to the Middle East.

Hadrian’s Wall is essentially a more or less arbitrarily drawn straight line drawn for political purposes, but it turned a wide sweep of what Stewart calls ‘middleland’ with all it’s complexity into two distinct and competing entities. Hadrian’s Wall created an enemy and a permanent threat.

The Middle East was similarly divided by ill informed officials with a crayon and a ruler.

It took 600 years to bring an uneasy peace between arbitrarily divided territories, let’s hope it doesn’t take as long for a resolution in Isreal.

www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Two - Border Country: The Story of Britain's Lost Middleland

Two-part series exploring the border country created by the building of Hadrian's Wall.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
cooky1257 said:
Don't undermine your position with such fukwittery.
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tongue in cheek. That will have cost them a pretty penny and it was the right thing to do in the circumstances.

""While the intent was to playfully show that some people just don't enjoy wearing paper Christmas hats over the festive season, we have removed the post following feedback and we apologise for any unintentional hurt caused," the brand stated.
 
Finnegan said:
Just to emphasise that this really is not about religion, and that the largely secular Ashkenazis look down upon more observant sects with a quasi-racism, footage of Israeli police- that’s the police of the “Jewish state of Israel”- knocking seven shades of shit out of Orthodox Jews who had the temerity to question the actions of the IDF.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719745919011213714
Click to expand...

Fatmarley said:
What's the real truth?

From watching a number of Palestinian and Jewish Israelis being interviewed on YouTube, it seems complicated. Most don't want war, and say they are equal, but as with most religious people, their religion is the right one. Although it's the governments that are doing the warmongering, I see it as a clash of religions that's dividing people. They just take it so seriously, that it's a way of life for many of them.

What would be telling, was if the Palestinians had the upper hand - Would they be fair to the Jews?

This absolutely doesn't take away how I feel about the poor, innocent people. I found it difficult to sleep last night thinking about children that are buried alive, crying for their parents. Heartbreaking.
Click to expand...

As to finnegan's post, it is just hard to begin. What is seen in the clip is unjustified police brutality. But some people have a story to tell, dots to connect, de-colonization ideology to support, and facts are neglected.
  1. The orthodox religious, at this moment, comprise a large part of the government (MP's representative- wise). Between a fourth and a third of it. They have been in the government, e.g. central ministers taking care of their voters, for ~90% of recent 40-50 years and longer than that. If you add non-orthodox religious, we are at roughly 50% of government and more. If you count the amount of "secular Ashkenazi" in the 64 reigning members of parliament, I doubt you will reach 15.
  2. Much harder Police brutality was widely used and recorded against those "secular Askenazi" of yours in huge rallies which the government, as you, denounced as "the white tribe", so you are in good company. Demonstrations against the religious+orthodox religious right who have been in power for long. Harsh brutality against youths, against elderly, against Ashkenazi left peace activists. Those vile secular ashkenazi demanded they are treated by the police the same way as Orthodox jewish demonstrators.
  3. The so called "Secular Ashkenazi" parties are in the opposition for 15 years now, except for one very short break last year. They are roughly a fourth of the population, even though it's hard to tell because many families are mixed.
  4. Please update, the culture in Israel is no longer secular Ashkenazi. Just watch any reality show, song contest, most popular singers and artists, they are Mizrahi/Sepharadi, i.e. of mostly middle eastern culture, or perhaps mixed.
  5. Sinning in generalizations, I would say that Peace movements are mainly secular Ashkenazi, extreme left movements even more so. Since 1977, the vast majority of governments are right-wing, supported by "traditional" Sepharadi voters. The leftists goverments, the ones who acknowledged PLO, signed the Oslo accord, are mostly "secular Ashkenazi".

Israeli culture has been far from pure of racism, but this post was so in line with recent trends, so overlooking reality, trying to fit events into pre-disposed beliefs, that honestly I am embarrassed to answer it. It is also embarrassing because of all the race distinctions that the post raised and hence appeared in answer.

Fatmarley, you are correct, when god is telling you things, it's hard to ignore. but not everyone in Israel (muslims and jews) is religious, and there are religious people who don't let their faith overcome their humanity and respect towards other people.
 
PaulMB said:
Is everyone going mad? The eyeliner is gold and blue (not white and blue) and the burning paper is green, white and red. I'm surprised the Italian ambassador has not complained.
Click to expand...

Problem is everyone is going through media with a magnifying glass and a narrow slit to view everything. Israel supporters can hardly complain they have been doing it for years. “Look his nose is a bit big, anti-Semitic cartoon”, most people WTF?
 
Current status as reported by the UN Relief & Works Agency:

  • According to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, 8,525 people have been killed since 7 October, including 3,542 children and 2,197 women, and 21,543 injured. This is in addition to the 2,000 reported missing, presumably under the rubble of destroyed buildings, including 1,100 children.
  • Overall, nearly 1,400 Israelis and foreign nationals have been killed in Israel, according to the Israeli authorities, the vast majority on 7 October (OCHA).
  • Over 529,000 persons are sheltering in 92 UNRWA facilities in the Middle, Khan Younis and Rafah areas. This represents an increase of around 18,000 IDPs in the last 24 hours. Shelters have reached their limit to accommodate new arrivals, and many IDPs are sleeping in the streets close to UNRWA premises.
  • It is estimated that 1.4 million people are currently displaced in the Gaza Strip. In addition to those currently in UNRWA shelters, many others have sought refuge with host families, or in hospitals, government schools and other public facilities.

It is all shocking, especially the last one IMO; out of a population of 2.2m 1.4 million civilians have been forcibly displaced.

 

Was Netanyahu right on Jewish scripture he quoted?​

PM Netanyahu quoted Jewish scripture to justify Israel’s actions in Gaza. However, this rabbi says Netanyahu is wrong.
Watch the discussion below:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is quoting Jewish scripture to justify Israel’s actions in Gaza. This rabbi says he’s wrong. pic.twitter.com/uSKkte8Z4g
— AJ+ (@ajplus) November 1, 2023
Click to expand...
www.aljazeera.com

Israel-Hamas war updates: Israel says its forces surround Gaza City

These were the updates on the Israel-Hamas war for Thursday, November 2.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
Here is a UNICEF statement relating to the IDF war crimes taking place in the Jabaliya refugee camp:

“The scenes of carnage coming out of Jabaliya camp in the Gaza Strip following attacks yesterday and again today are horrific and appalling.

“While we do not yet have estimates of the toll the attack has taken on children, people’s homes have been leveled, hundreds apparently injured and killed, with many children reportedly among the casualties.

“These two attacks follow 25 days of ongoing bombardment that have reportedly resulted in more than 3,500 children killed – not including today’s deaths – and over 6,800 children reportedly injured. This would be over 400 children killed or injured per day, for 25 straight days. This cannot become the new normal.

“Refugee camps, settlements for the internally displaced, and the civilians inhabiting them are all protected under international humanitarian law (IHL). Parties to conflict have an obligation to respect and protect them from attack.

“Attacks of this scale on densely populated residential neighborhoods can have indiscriminate effects and are completely unacceptable. Refugees and internally displaced people are protected under international humanitarian law. Parties to conflict have an obligation to protect them from attack.

“Children have endured too much already. The killing and captivity of children must stop. Children are not a target.

“UNICEF reiterates its urgent call to all parties to the conflict for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, to ensure the protection of all children, and for safe and unimpeded humanitarian access to deliver lifesaving aid at scale across the Gaza Strip, according to International Humanitarian Law.”

www.unicef.org

Statement by UNICEF on the deaths and injuries of children in Jabaliya camp

www.unicef.org www.unicef.org
 
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