droodzilla
pfm Member
I get this but see my post above.
This is why we have international law (even if it's apparently useless).
War declared, Israel v Palestine...
- Thread starter Darmok
- Start date
I get this but see my post above.
This is why we have international law (even if it's apparently useless).
paulfromcamden
Baffled
For myself I think there's a very good chance I would be out for blood and I can't condemn individuals who are experiencing that trauma and reacting in that way.
I'm conscious that some PFM members have posted that people they know have been killed or taken hostage by Hamas. No way do I have the right to tell someone in that position how they should feel.
The behaviour of governments is a different matter.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
MSF:
“A new team of international staff, including a specialised medical team, has already been identified and is ready to enter Gaza as soon as the situation allows, to support the humanitarian and medical response,”
Imagine volunteering to work in a hospital in Gaza knowing there's a very strong chance you'll be bombed. Proper bravery.
“A new team of international staff, including a specialised medical team, has already been identified and is ready to enter Gaza as soon as the situation allows, to support the humanitarian and medical response,”
Imagine volunteering to work in a hospital in Gaza knowing there's a very strong chance you'll be bombed. Proper bravery.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
If a 1967 borders, true two state solution (open access to Gaza and the West Bank) was imposed on the region, pragmatic Islamic country donors would very quickly eliminate the extremists on the Palestinian side. Ordinary people with a future and a job tend to get sensible and Hamas would fail without popular support
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Just watched some goon from right wing think tank, Policy Exchange invited onto Newsnight justifying naming two prominent academics for speaking out against the treatment of Palestinians, after 1,300 academics signed an open letter against Michelle Donelan’s call for a UK Research and Innovation advisory panel to be shut down over social media posts of some of its members on the Israel-Hamas war.
Donelan is obviously trying show her teeth like Braverman in attempting to shut down freedom of expression as Braverman has with freedom to protest.
Donelan is obviously trying show her teeth like Braverman in attempting to shut down freedom of expression as Braverman has with freedom to protest.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Yes, of course, at least in theory.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
"This is a textbook case of genocide. The European, ethno-nationalist, settler colonial project in Palestine has entered its final phase, towards the expedited destruction of the last remnants of indigenous Palestinian life in Palestine. What’s more, the government of the United States, the United Kingdom, and much of Europe, are wholly complicit in this horrific assault.”
And there we have it, from the resigning Director of the UN’s New York office. And “wholly complicit” in this instance means Biden, Sunak, Macron and Von Der Lyen have as much blood dripping from their hands as Netenyahu.
And there we have it, from the resigning Director of the UN’s New York office. And “wholly complicit” in this instance means Biden, Sunak, Macron and Von Der Lyen have as much blood dripping from their hands as Netenyahu.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Just to emphasise that this really is not about religion, and that the largely secular Ashkenazis look down upon more observant sects with a quasi-racism, footage of Israeli police- that’s the police of the “Jewish state of Israel”- knocking seven shades of shit out of Orthodox Jews who had the temerity to question the actions of the IDF.
Jubal
pfm Member
It’s not just those directly affected. A bloke showed me a video yesterday which he filmed from his son’s balcony in Tel Aviv a few days ago. Rockets raining down, Iron Dome doing its thing. He was only there to give his daughter in law a break from caring for his son. Scared witless as helpless civilians. Now very angry and seeking revenge/protection. Once again, it’s a tiny example of normal folk taking the partisan position just because of the threat they and theirs face.
The amount of ignorance in this post is just too hard to fathom.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Thousands protest Biden’s warmongering in Minneapolis
Fatmarley
"It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"
What's the real truth?
From watching a number of Palestinian and Jewish Israelis being interviewed on YouTube, it seems complicated. Most don't want war, and say they are equal, but as with most religious people, their religion is the right one. Although it's the governments that are doing the warmongering, I see it as a clash of religions that's dividing people. They just take it so seriously, that it's a way of life for many of them.
What would be telling, was if the Palestinians had the upper hand - Would they be fair to the Jews?
This absolutely doesn't take away how I feel about the poor, innocent people. I found it difficult to sleep last night thinking about children that are buried alive, crying for their parents. Heartbreaking.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
There's more in this interview. This statement is really striking:
“usually the most difficult part of proving genocide is intent”, but that this was not the case with Israeli leaders “explicitly and “publicly” stating their position. “It’s on the public record,” Mokhiber said.
[US President] Joe Biden has recently said that after this conflict is over, we need to get back to a two-state solution. In your letter, you say the mantra of a two-state solution has become, and I quote, an open joke in the corridors of the United Nations where we are sitting right now. Is it really an open joke in the corridors of the United Nations?
Yes, and it has been for quite a long time, if you ask somebody in their official capacity about the two states, and they will repeat that phrase over and over again as the official position of the United Nations. Indeed, that is the official position of the United States. But nobody who follows these circumstances either from the political side or from the human rights side believes that a two-state solution is possible anymore.
There’s nothing left for a Palestinian state that would be sustainable or just or were possible in any respect, and everyone knows that.
And secondly, that solution never dealt with the problem of the fundamental human rights of Palestinians. So for example, it would leave them as second-class citizens without full human rights inside what is now Israel proper.
[Yet the naive continue to regurgitate the 2 state solution in line with the US]
Q&A: UN official who quit over Gaza response on war and genocide
Human rights expert says UN must hold Israel accountable for its military actions in Gaza.
PaulMB
pfm Member
There is no "real truth." There is a few thousand years of history, more recently the history of the Ottoman Empire, and the British mandate (1920 - 1948) and since the official establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.
It can all be read and interpreted in many ways, both on its own and in the context of events in the surrounding area and the rest of the world.
Incidentally, most Israelis are not religious, and consider being Jewish a national or ethnic identity, like Scots or Armenians or Welshmen. I've met a number of Palestinians, both in Israel and abroad, and although they considered themselves Muslims or Christians, most were no more conditioned by religion than the average Englishman is by the existence of the Church of England. Rather, they considered themselves Arabs.