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Ukraine V

NeilR said:
Seems like Bakhmut is soon to be captured by the Russians. I am sensing that the tide has turned slightly in recent weeks, the effect of the sheer numbers of mobilised soldiers is starting to make it hard for the Ukrainians.

Those tanks can’t come a moment too soon. 6 months ago would have been far better.
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The main purpose of dynamic defense doctrine is to atrit the attacking force until their capacity to attack is exhausted. Ukranians are doing this well, but at a cost in their lives and equipment - though the Russian costs are far higher.

Bakhmut has been a large cemetery for RF forces, especially for Prigozhin's mercenaries - tens of thousands killed, his status in RF greatly diminished and Wagner group named an international criminal organization by the US. This is actually important for an internal Russian reason - Wagner group was the embodiment of "hybrid warfare" doctrine attributed to Gerasimov - and its failure, together with Gerasimov assuming control signals a return to standard military command of the battlefield. This is being interpreted as generals telling Putin what can and can't be done and hopefully encouraging him to cut a deal (2022 borders).

I wouldn't be overly concerned about small tactical movements on the battlefield - it's normal for the kind of war these combatants are fighting - essentially WW2. None of us have any real experience with this kind of warfare and its slow, meat grinder progress in either direction. Trench warfare with a modern extra deadly drone/guided munitions twist.

It's worth remembering that the battlefield lines in the Donbas hasn't changed significantly in many months - and Russian movements there don't rise to even an operational level.
 
Given fact, that Soledar and Bakhmut was in Wagner's responsibility and there are mostly prisoners, you can say Russia lost very little, even if numbers are very high.
Ukraine lost in overal much more, people, weapons, time and also had to give up on Kreminna for time being because of moving troops away from that task to Bakhmut.
 
gints said:
Given fact, that Soledar and Bakhmut was in Wagner's responsibility and there are mostly prisoners, you can say Russia lost very little, even if numbers are very high.
Ukraine lost in overal much more, people, weapons, time and also had to give up on Kreminna for time being because of moving troops away from that task to Bakhmut.
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Yes, but I hear that Russian prisoners no longer sign up for death by Wagner after 50k were killed in Prigozhin's "employ." It didn't help him filmed standing in front of a large pile of body bags, declaring that "their contracts are done." I am afraid that clip went viral.

But one Russian prisoner wants to sign up, and has done so publicly. He is in prison for rape and murder of scores of women - and he is offering his talents to the Wagner group. One convicted murderer, after being killed as a Wagner mercenary, was awarded a prestigious Russian battle medal.

The whole thing was presented by Prigozhin as a cost saving to Putin right before the war. He promised that no more than one or two weekly payments will be made to the prisoners before "their contracts are done."
 
ks.234 said:
This is a thread in which certain people feel it’s ok to make up things you are supposed to have said.
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If one feels that they are continuously misquoted, one distinct possibility (without dismissing the possibility of purposeful malice by other respondents) is that your position is muddled and unclear.

From my point of view, the "peace now" contingent on this thread never articulated a clear position on how to stop this war NOW through negotiations. When asked ANY particulars (other than the magic word - negotiations), say should Ukraine seed territory or how to ensure RF won't go further, they shrug their shoulders and claim ignorance. It's a "position" free of any responsibility.

Unfortunately, in your case, you can never be misquoted - in your years of voluminous thread crapping you literally said everything about everything - like a million monkeys typing for a million years.
 
DimitryZ said:
If one feels that they are continuously misquoted, one distinct possibility (without dismissing the possibility of purposeful malice by other respondents) is that your position is muddled and unclear.

From my point of view, the "peace now" contingent on this thread never articulated a clear position on how to stop this war NOW through negotiations. When asked ANY particulars (other than the magic word - negotiations), say should Ukraine seed territory or how to ensure RF won't go further, they shrug their shoulders and claim ignorance. It's a "position" free of any responsibility.

Unfortunately, in your case, you can never be misquoted - in your years of voluminous thread crapping you literally said everything about everything - like a million monkeys typing for a million years.
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No need to be such a rude prick, mate.
 
DimitryZ said:
Actually, I was, if anything, overly polite.

This war has been going for almost a year. Have you been able to articulate ANY set of proposals that would at least get the two sides interested in negotiations?
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Honest answer - dunno, but I'm sure that, for all the chest-beating and posturing there are conversations going on behind the scenes.

The US is a key player, obviously - if it scales back military support (not saying it should) that will change things.

Anyway, try to be more respectful and civil in discussions. There's no need for some of the shit you fling around.

Also would be great if you stop making up positions and attributing them to people who don't share your love of advanced missile systems.

Ta!
 
droodzilla said:
Honest answer - dunno, but I'm sure that, for all the chest-beating and posturing there are conversations going on behind the scenes.

The US is a key player, obviously - if it scales back military support (not saying it should) that will change things.

Anyway, try to be more respectful and civil in discussions. There's no need for some of the shit you fling around.

Also would be great if you stop making up positions and attributing them to people who don't share your love of advanced missile systems.

Ta!
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So, after a year of war, what exactly is your position on this conflict?

Is it any surprise that you complain of being misquoted or misrepresented?

If you want to be clearly understood, you must articulate your actual position on the topic of the thread. "I dunno" and "It's OK to say that..." doesn't really define anything.

My position is clear: Ukraine should be supplied with all or most of the battlefield weapons it needs to drive the invading Russian forces to the internationally recognized borders of the Russian Federation (1991). I have assessed the risk of escalation of the war beyond Ukraine and use of nuclear weapons by RF and find it minimal.
 
DimitryZ said:
Unfortunately, in your case, you can never be misquoted - in your years of voluminous thread crapping you literally said everything about everything - like a million monkeys typing for a million years.
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You can escape from Russia but primitivism will never escape from you.
 
droodzilla said:
No need to be such a rude prick, mate.
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Oh dear. I have just read Dinitryz post and its tone is fine - yours in the other hand - isn’t.

Maybe it’s just your frustration coming out because the hard left posters on PF have nothing useful to contribute on the war and are at odds with what Zelensky and the Ukrainian people indeed want.

Edit: I don’t think KS234 threadcraps.
 
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Some gossips from Moscow (through Google Translate):

Shoigu in the very near future may submit proposals to Putin to change the Russian military doctrine.
Our sources say that in the very near future, the Russian Defense Ministry will officially announce that Moscow will expand and change the list of reasons why the country can use tactical nuclear weapons (TNW). The head of the Defense Ministry, Sergei Shoigu, had previously held consultations on this issue with representatives of the presidential administration of the Russian Federation, but then the final version of the amended doctrine was never approved.

"We are talking about the fact that the Russian Federation will be able to use tactical nuclear weapons not only in the event of a "threat to the existence of the state" as a result of an enemy attack on the country. In particular, we can talk about the fact that Russia will have the right to a tactical nuclear strike even if if the enemy’s attack does not threaten the existence of the state, however, it was carried out either on a critical infrastructure facility, or on a government agency, or it resulted in large casualties. the move, according to the Kremlin, should cool hot heads in Brussels, Washington and Kyiv," the insiders specify, adding that the next step after the change in doctrine could be Russia's nuclear testing.
 
^^^^^^^^^
Same bluff as before, now through Google Translate.

This is the way to think about that: Putin is basically a Trump-like grifter, transplanted into the most corrupt swamp in the modern world - Russia in the 90s. He has been super successful in amassing power and fabulous wealth and loves his pleasure filled life. Like Trump, he has a political hobby (MAGA presidency for Trump, restoration of USSR for Putin).

Did anyone think that Trump would commit suicide after losing the presidency?

Exactly.
 
anubisgrau said:
Some gossips from Moscow (through Google Translate):

Shoigu in the very near future may submit proposals to Putin to change the Russian military doctrine.
Our sources say that in the very near future, the Russian Defense Ministry will officially announce that Moscow will expand and change the list of reasons why the country can use tactical nuclear weapons (TNW). The head of the Defense Ministry, Sergei Shoigu, had previously held consultations on this issue with representatives of the presidential administration of the Russian Federation, but then the final version of the amended doctrine was never approved.

"We are talking about the fact that the Russian Federation will be able to use tactical nuclear weapons not only in the event of a "threat to the existence of the state" as a result of an enemy attack on the country. In particular, we can talk about the fact that Russia will have the right to a tactical nuclear strike even if if the enemy’s attack does not threaten the existence of the state, however, it was carried out either on a critical infrastructure facility, or on a government agency, or it resulted in large casualties. the move, according to the Kremlin, should cool hot heads in Brussels, Washington and Kyiv," the insiders specify, adding that the next step after the change in doctrine could be Russia's nuclear testing.
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Why don’t they stop pussyfooting around and include ‘uses a German built tank’ as well.
 
anubisgrau said:
"We are talking about the fact that the Russian Federation will be able to use tactical nuclear weapons not only in the event of a "threat to the existence of the state" as a result of an enemy attack on the country. In particular, we can talk about the fact that Russia will have the right to a tactical nuclear strike even if if the enemy’s attack does not threaten the existence of the state, however, it was carried out either on a critical infrastructure facility, or on a government agency, or it resulted in large casualties. the move, according to the Kremlin, should cool hot heads in Brussels, Washington and Kyiv," the insiders specify, adding that the next step after the change in doctrine could be Russia's nuclear testing.
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Echoes of this?
EJPpNspOTqVV-4Cx0kFyxlp1oXkLrdtsOjR5cNyfR2c.jpg
 
DimitryZ said:
If one feels that they are continuously misquoted, one distinct possibility (without dismissing the possibility of purposeful malice by other respondents) is that your position is muddled and unclear.

From my point of view, the "peace now" contingent on this thread never articulated a clear position on how to stop this war NOW through negotiations. When asked ANY particulars (other than the magic word - negotiations), say should Ukraine seed territory or how to ensure RF won't go further, they shrug their shoulders and claim ignorance. It's a "position" free of any responsibility.

Unfortunately, in your case, you can never be misquoted - in your years of voluminous thread crapping you literally said everything about everything - like a million monkeys typing for a million years.
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You are confused. I didn’t accuse you of misquoting, I accused you of making things up. Not merely misrepresenting something that has been said, but invented things that have not been said.

My posts have been perfectly clear, that you have not been able to understand or recognise either the history or the economics that preceded the Russian invasion of Ukraine is down to you.

Neither has there been any thread capping, the title of this thread is just “Ukraine”, that does not preclude discussing various aspects of the current situation. It is not just a thread for you to discuss your favourite missile.

If you disagree with anything I have said, in this or any other thread, then engage with what I have actually said in the manner of a reasonable discussion instead of inventing things and resorting to petty insult.
 
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