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Ukraine V

Russian demographics are appalling because, understandably they didn’t want to make babies after the collapse of the nineties. He will down to conscripting the over sixties soon :) Sure it’s a vast country but only 140million people and his massive manufacturing base is already importing drones from Iran…

Oban is a right pain. Because of the EU rules he managed to squeeze 5.8 billion out of them to appprove an aid package of 13 billion to Ukraine. With a population of 10 million that’s quite a bit each…
 
MUTTY1 said:
Oban is a right pain.…
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I find it pretty good!

obnob.14yo.jpg
 
anubisgrau said:
OK, nothing compares to Russia today. Maybe Iran or North Korea and that's all. I have no clue how this can be changed, this is one of the worst cases in human history.
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And yet, you work so hard to accommodate it's survival and regime continuation.

You mentioned that you don't feel safe in your current (far away from trouble) location. Is it the actual personal physical fear of death that drives your desire to see Putin and "worst case in human history" survive?
 
anubisgrau said:
Sorry, there is no excuse, even when you are confronted with Martians. You would not be the same, racism is not a genetical disorder, it's a matter of social culture. I know it's not the best time to talk about it but someone has to say it (again). There were ugly racist incidents in the first days of war with people of color studying or working in Ukraine who couldn't evacuate easily, locals had priority. Not only those from Africa but local Roma who were badly mistreated and tortured in horrible incidents that would make BNP proud of.

But I'm not going to talk about it, I will be again accused of choosing topics of minor importance or trolling.
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You dutifully bring it up at every opportunity, in order to argue from anecdote that Ukranians are "kind of racist" and planting a seed of doubt that we should be supporting such bad people. And perhaps giving credence to Putin's "denazification" claims. Sadly, you are fully aligned with propaganda from "the worst case in human history."

Why do you do it?
 
tones said:
Is Orban actually delusional? How can Putin lose an election when he has neutered or completely dismantled any opposition? The changes in the Russian election system ensure that he can stay in power for as long as he wants. Not to mention the fact that the Russian media all sing from the same song sheet. And of course he can't lose a war, because he is not actually fighting a war, but engaging in a local limited police action.

I have a friend who is studying Russian. He tells me that his teacher is amazed at the reaction of her friends in Russia when she telephones them - they have bought completely the story that Ukraine needs to be cleansed of Nazis and are fully supportive of the limited police action to rescue brother Ukrainians from the clutches of these nefarious low-lives.
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watch this and be even more depressed

 
NeilR said:
for me, the guy talking about how Ukraine should be cleansed of Nazis and then going on to talk about getting rid of Zelensky the Jew takes the biscuit! Astonishing stuff.
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The rampant anti-semitism is scary. Of course, the Russian Orthodox was particularly attached to the idea of Jews as "Christ killers" (an idea, it has to be remembered , only repudiated by the Catholic Church in the 1960s). Not for nothing is "pogrom" a Russian word. Jews in pre-revolutionary Russia were restricted to living within a so-called "Pale of Settlement" in the western part of the country, and even then were not allowed to live in certain cities in the Pale. As Vlad's hero, Peter the Great, delicately put it, "I prefer to see in our midst nations professing Mohammedanism and paganism rather than Jews. They are rogues and cheats. It is my endeavor to eradicate evil, not to multiply it".
 
"Germany's government says Russia deliberately misinterpreted a remark by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock for propaganda purposes. She seemed to suggest NATO was party to the conflict in Ukraine, which the West denies.

Germany's government on Friday accused Russia of pouncing on a statement by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock to twist it to the Kremlin's own ends and reiterated that neither Germany nor NATO were parties to the war in Ukraine.

Baerbock had called for Western unity during a meeting of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg on Tuesday, saying, in English:

"We are fighting a war against Russia, not against each other."


And you criticized me so much for saying the same since Feb 22.
 
anubisgrau said:
"Germany's government says Russia deliberately misinterpreted a remark by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock for propaganda purposes. She seemed to suggest NATO was party to the conflict in Ukraine, which the West denies.

Germany's government on Friday accused Russia of pouncing on a statement by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock to twist it to the Kremlin's own ends and reiterated that neither Germany nor NATO were parties to the war in Ukraine.

Baerbock had called for Western unity during a meeting of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg on Tuesday, saying, in English:

"We are fighting a war against Russia, not against each other."


And you criticized me so much for saying the same since Feb 22.
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Dude, keep up.

A year ago, claiming that the West was at war with Russia would get you shrieked at for repeating "Putin's talking points".

Now, all the cool liberal pundits are saying it:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...for-all-of-us-now-europe-must-fight-putin-too

so it's OK. War is Peace, and all that.
 
PsB said:
When did Simon Tisdall get upgraded to Cool Pundit status?
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Haha! Now that's a good question.

He has been one of the most consistently bellicose pundits I've read, which says a lot about the state of liberal media in the UK (the long shadow of 9/11 and its attendant hysteria).
 
droodzilla said:
Haha! Now that's a good question.

He has been one of the most consistently bellicose pundits I've read, which says a lot about the state of liberal media in the UK (the long shadow of 9/11 and its attendant hysteria).
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Also consistently wrong, or at least off by a considerable margin. I've always thought he's part of the Guardian's attempt at "balance".
 
droodzilla said:
Dude, keep up.

A year ago, claiming that the West was at war with Russia would get you shrieked at for repeating "Putin's talking points".

Now, all the cool liberal pundits are saying it:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...for-all-of-us-now-europe-must-fight-putin-too

so it's OK. War is Peace, and all that.
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A year ago, Putin didn't invade Ukraine with his army...

I honestly don't understand why you and @anubisgrau spend so much time on claiming that "Russia is at war with the West." (which, incidentally, is a main point that Putin hammers every time).

I think that pretty much in every conflict, some countries chose to help combatants on each side of the conflict. This time Ukraine has many western countries supplying weapons and materiel and Russia has Iran, North Korea and Iran doing the same. However, there are no foreign soldiers on the battlefield in any significant numbers - couple of thousand western nationals on the Ukrainian side and similar numbers of recruited middle east fighters on the Russian side, both under direct combatants' command.

This conflict is no different than many others that preceded it - Korea, Vietnam, most Israeli wars, etc., in terms of foreign involvement. I would consider it astonishing that a huge land war in the heart of Europe would NOT draw involvement from other countries, especially those bordering the battlefield.

Yet you and @anubisgrau spent lots of time painting a picture of Russia beseeched by numerous enemies which it *almost* has to invade in order to survive. And certainly, once it does, it's totally wrong for countries around the one Russia chosen first to help the target nation.

This is quite a false and illogical position that you should rethink.

It's worth noting that Putin regretts starting in Ukraine, instead of the Baltic countries.
 
anubisgrau said:
"Germany's government says Russia deliberately misinterpreted a remark by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock for propaganda purposes. She seemed to suggest NATO was party to the conflict in Ukraine, which the West denies.

Germany's government on Friday accused Russia of pouncing on a statement by Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock to twist it to the Kremlin's own ends and reiterated that neither Germany nor NATO were parties to the war in Ukraine.

Baerbock had called for Western unity during a meeting of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg on Tuesday, saying, in English:

"We are fighting a war against Russia, not against each other."


And you criticized me so much for saying the same since Feb 22.
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Well, that leaves me speechless. The hypocrisy of it. Was she bribed or caught in a honey trap ?
 
DimitryZ said:
I honestly don't understand why you and @anubisgrau spend so much time on claiming that "Russia is at war with the West." (which, incidentally, is a main point that Putin hammers every time).
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I think you are lost, mate. How old are you?

Please provide evidence that I wrote that Russia is at war with the West.

I certainly don't buy this Kremlin trash from Simonyan and Solovyev.

I wrote opposite (and true): that the West is at war with Russia.

Russia is at war with Ukraine, that's at least very simple. For reasons the West is at least as much as responsible as Russian imperial complexes.

I don't believe that Russia will be at war with Baltics, Sweden, Finland, Poland or whatsoever, unless they get involved first. Which may quite easily happen given the easiness how US is now putting allies in war order behind them.
 
anubisgrau said:
I think you are lost, mate. How old are you?

Please provide evidence that I wrote that Russia is at war with the West.

I certainly don't buy this Kremlin trash from Simonyan and Solovyev.

I wrote opposite (and true): that the West is at war with Russia.

Russia is at war with Ukraine, that's at least very simple. For reasons the West is at least as much as responsible as Russian imperial complexes.

I don't believe that Russia will be at war with Baltics, Sweden, Finland, Poland or whatsoever, unless they get involved first. Which may quite easily happen given the easiness how US is now putting allies in war order behind them.
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I think you proved my point admirably. The West is at war with Russia and Russia *had* to invade Ukraine to protect itself.

That is the very core of "Kremlin trash" that you supposedly "don't buy." But sadly the opposite is true - you have absorbed it fully and happily. And that's how it works - you can claim it's trash and repeat it's words just the same without notice.

I would let Baltic countries make their own decisions, but it seems your vouching for Putin to be a peaceful man with them will be highly unconvincing to their citizens.
 
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