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Tory Leadership Runners and Riders

Some of the great and good of the Tory faithful. They will vote Liz for PM as it was her birthday today and she made pleasant small talk over cake.

As if they care about the ins and outs of inflation...

Plus you can imagine Sunak being a bit arrogant and artificial over cake. He wouldn't want to hang around.

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gintonic said:
more like 50 years, a generation.
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True. But while we have our choices at the next GE set out before us, and those choices have been set by our own baked in ideas set by a household model of what is possible, there is still time after that to realise that other choices are in fact possible. The problem is that we keep voting for depression of one sort or another.
 
ks.234 said:
True. But while we have our choices at the next GE set out before us, and those choices have been set by our own baked in ideas set by a household model of what is possible, there is still time after that to realise that other choices are in fact possible. The problem is that we keep voting for depression of one sort or another.
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there isnt actually - the reality on the ground is that many people are voting in a popularity contest. When i was on the hustings with my local branch talking to people around here, surprisingly few knew about policies, first past the post, what parties stood - it was massively disheartening.

I engage very little with the political discussions on here, primarily because all the deep and "intellectual" discussion about the systems, the policies, the parties, the meaning, are in reality pointless in the face of the bigger picture of the electorate. They can be interesting debates to the participants, but few outside the PFM enclave are interested.

I tried to have a discussion with my next door neighbour, he is still adamant that Boris remains the best PM - because he has the best personality to "get things done". The interest and understanding is a mere veneer.
 
Joe Hutch said:
I've never actually fainted,
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Oddly, I have on a few occasions. Usually without any obvious reason. But once or twice due to something that just happened which - consciously - I thought trivial. On one occasion as I was falling down I was thinking "this is bonkers! why am I fainting?!" Did also happen once after an electric shock - which paniced people around me. But I *think* I survived... or is all this actually a nightmare what with the Tories and all!! 8-]
 
I fainted in a biology lesson once. It was shortly after we were all asked to sniff some sour milk and I remember the smell being so overpowering that I couldn't breathe. It's possible that a lack of sleep also contributed. Anyway, I remember spots before my eyes and being taken out of the classroom to lie on the grass outside, before an hour in sickbay. Very odd experience as I had no idea what was happening at the time.
 
gintonic said:
I engage very little with the political discussions on here, primarily because all the deep and "intellectual" discussion about the systems, the policies, the parties, the meaning, are in reality pointless in the face of the bigger picture of the electorate. They can be interesting debates to the participants, but few outside the PFM enclave are interested.
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Although I largely agree with your comments about the electrorate I still tend to feel we should at least *try* to let people know the deceptions and lies they are being fed, and that things need changing for the better. The reality is that our descendents will be faced with the messes we make, so we should at least put up some challenge to the bullshit and exploitation. Some will recognise it.

Also, I don't want anyone who comes later to think the damage was done with my approval or support and that we *did* say there *was* an alternative. Blame has to go to those who are responsible.
 
gintonic said:
there isnt actually - the reality on the ground is that many people are voting in a popularity contest. When i was on the hustings with my local branch talking to people around here, surprisingly few knew about policies, first past the post, what parties stood - it was massively disheartening.

I engage very little with the political discussions on here, primarily because all the deep and "intellectual" discussion about the systems, the policies, the parties, the meaning, are in reality pointless in the face of the bigger picture of the electorate. They can be interesting debates to the participants, but few outside the PFM enclave are interested.

I tried to have a discussion with my next door neighbour, he is still adamant that Boris remains the best PM - because he has the best personality to "get things done". The interest and understanding is a mere veneer.
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Very much my point. We have a limited choice before us because we don’t demand anything different.
 
ks.234 said:
Very much my point. We have a limited choice before us because we don’t demand anything different.
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Well, again, the situation is a bit different in Scotland. In part a chicken-and-egg effect because the media aren't quite the same as in the rUK. But then we also remain partly controlled by Westminster that limits what can be done even when that tends to enhance the wish to end those limits.
 
ks.234 said:
Very much my point. We have a limited choice before us because we don’t demand anything different.
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chicken and egg if you ask me. Hence my view that it'll take more than a generation. Our young people, may (and i remain to be convinced) demand change. The disinterested are never going to demand change.
 
gintonic said:
I engage very little with the political discussions on here, primarily because all the deep and "intellectual" discussion about the systems, the policies, the parties, the meaning, are in reality pointless in the face of the bigger picture of the electorate. They can be interesting debates to the participants, but few outside the PFM enclave are interested.
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I think that just reflects the difference between politics and policy. I am much more interested in the policy because I have always been basically a geek and politics is full of annoying human, institutional and societal factors that make for a mostly tiresome and frustrating experience.

It's also a big difference and weakness of the centre and left of UK politics in that they are far too reliant on the idea that if only everyone was better in formed then we wouldn't keep electing such damaging governments, whereas the Tories have always known that none of that really matters as long as you can make a compelling and easily understood offering to the electorate they will happily memory hole all the terrible things your terrible people did just last month.

BTW I am always slightly amused by the way people talk about PFM here like it's the Bilderberg meeting rather than a small part of a small forum mostly populated by a very narrow demographic (middle aged white men who like nothing better than spending the day in the shed :) ).
 
matthewr said:
BTW I am always slightly amused by the way people talk about PFM here like it's the Bilderberg meeting rather than a small part of a small forum mostly populated by a very narrow demographic (middle aged white men who like nothing better than spending the day in the shed
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this is very true
 
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