Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Only if they've been on the Buckie too long.Fascinating numbers Brian. Not quite the slam dunk many portray. This may sound a ludicrous question, but are there SNP voters in a GE who would vote no to independence?
Only if they've been on the Buckie too long.Fascinating numbers Brian. Not quite the slam dunk many portray. This may sound a ludicrous question, but are there SNP voters in a GE who would vote no to independence?
These numbers, they seem to have magically different assigned values north or south of Gretna. Might the question have been stimulated by the knowledge that 5% of UKIP voters apparently voted to remain in the EU?Only if they've been on the Buckie too long.
Nobody is asking for anything different of nationalists in this thread to what is being asked by those same nationalists in the brexit thread.It is as if, somehow, the SNP and Sturgeon are being interviewed for a job as "Rulers of Scotland for All Time". That is not what is happening.
The question in front of us is "Should Scotland be an Independent Country?" That's it.
The answer to all the side questions: "But, what would you do about....this, that and the other?" is simple: "Same as any other independent country." We'd sort it out to the best of our ability, with varying levels of cooperation and goodwill from neighbouring countries. Some things will go wrong. Some will go well. Mistakes will be made. Heads will roll.
You don't achieve your full potential by allowing your neighbour to make all the important decisions for you and managing your money. For the very simple reason that they are just not as interested in your wellbeing and potential as you are yourself.
The numbers are clear but they are big, especially the number who didn’t vote SNP and definitely bigger than 41-40.These numbers, they seem to have magically different assigned values north or south of Gretna.
If we get independence then wee Hitler will be in charge to continue to do absolutely nothing about drugs misuse, educations, poverty, mental health issues etc after 8 years of blaming Westminster for all of Scotland's woes.
The SNP themselves are devoid of bad faith and lies - really?
Regards
Richard
But, how can any government address all these social problems with less and less money? Public services in England, and therefore Scotland, (because we get a set proportion of what is spent in England) have had their budgets cut continually since the Tories won power in 2010. The real-terms cuts to Education, Housing, Mental Health etc are massive. Austerity means the need for social services increases at the same time as the services are cut. It is a recipe for misery and poverty and it is a political choice.
If we want to make different political choices, then we need the power to make those choices. If you want a Scottish government that is not dependant on Westminster, then you will need to vote for an independent Scottish government.
Westminster subsidy is £41BN a year. Day zero of independence, that goes to zero. Where is the £41BN going to come from to stand still, let alone spend more money? Oh, and even with the £41BN a year, the SNP deficit is projected to be £3.5BN a year by 2026. Where is the money going to come from?
...You don't achieve your full potential by allowing your neighbour to make all the important decisions for you and managing your money...
If you leave the UK you will become dependant on the EU on joining, so it’s worth pointing out the EU is also in favour of austerity as a political choice.But, how can any government address all these social problems with less and less money? Public services in England, and therefore Scotland, (because we get a set proportion of what is spent in England) have had their budgets cut continually since the Tories won power in 2010. The real-terms cuts to Education, Housing, Mental Health etc are massive. Austerity means the need for social services increases at the same time as the services are cut. It is a recipe for misery and poverty and it is a political choice.
If we want to make different political choices, then we need the power to make those choices. If you want a Scottish government that is not dependant on Westminster, then you will need to vote for an independent Scottish government.
Richard is not trolling.Why do you think I need to defend the SNP? You are starting to troll Richard. It's tedious.
I said "...after so much bad faith and lies, it matters very little what any UK PM says or promises...who can trust them now?"
Some of the SNP will be liars and some of them may operate with bad faith. That has zero influence on the level of trust we might place in what Boris Johnson says or promises. He is rather well-known for his lying and mendacity. It is his trademark. His brand. Do you disagree?
You are starting to troll Richard. It's tedious.
You are being serious????
Richard
I can't help harbouring a feeling that the SNP are obsessed by the idea of independence and not realistically addressing underlying issues they didn't appear to have answers to or did and decided to keep them to themselves - kind of a 'muddling through' approach.
As I have previously stated there were inadequately answered questions with regards to Brexit and if I see a similar approach from the SNP with respect to the independence referendum then I'm hardly going to be 100% for it. I would have to disagree with you because, certainly in the first instance, the SNP are in charge and thus directing institutions.
I am all for credible sources of information but it is still a 'big leap' and events beyond the control/ borders of Scotland could have disproportionate effects on 5.25million as opposed to 60+million.
Regards
Richard
Your view from an accumulation of posts sounds very much like brexit and those 17.4m gammons apparently not knowing what they were voting for.Those are all reasonable points. I guess that any political party proposing major disruption and dislocation is going to take a kind of "it'll be all right on the night" kind of stance.
I think there is a difficulty for the SNP in addressing your "underlying issues". If Sturgeon announced tomorrow that an iScotland would create it's own currency on day one, can you imagine the media frenzy, attacks, outrange, undermining etc? Likewise "keep the pound" produces a similar frenzy. As the party holding power, they have a vested interest in soothing any fears.
That's why I look to independent, non-government sources for analysis. When you move away from Tory-funded or wealthy, vested-interest information sources, they are mostly quite equable about how an iScotland would fare.
It would be a major disruption. Some of it will go wrong. Some people could be worse off financially for a few years perhaps...who knows? Demanding certainty and guarantees feed demagoguery. Anyone promising a guarantee about the future is probably making it up.
Re Scotlands financial chances post leaving.
Theyd be a sparsely populated country without a corrupt government.
They have considerable natural resources, both oil and renewables.
They have tourism as a resource as well, and this would be helped by restoring EU feedom of movement.
They would, on rejoining the EU, be in a position to enjoy all trading advantages, and democratic ones of belonging to that organisation.
Re the billions pontius claims they consume, I can't remember the exact details but it was clarified upthread that these figures are unreliable and deceiving, using amongst other sleights of hand the servicing of Scottish debt as a smokescreen. Perhaps someone who remembers the source will post or link to the information on this.
Ah, ET have you forgotten our one liner pact?The first point is uncontentious, the second is not.
The current Scottish government, together with the Greens, are ideologically opposed to the extraction and use of fossil fuels. I believe the oil industry employs around 100,000 people. They certainly have plenty of space for wind turbines. EU competition and subsidy rules will ensure that the contracts for the construction of the turbines will not go to Scottish fabrication yards, but to (subsidised) Spanish and Malaysian ones.
Their greatest natural resouce may well turn out to be water.
The vast majority of Scotland's tourist visitors are from other parts of the UK, and they spend £3.7bn. 37% of overseas visitors come from the US, Canada and Australia. EU members Germany & France constitute 17% of Scotland's tourist visitors. Collectively overseas visitors spend £806m.
Scotland's largest trading partner is rUK, accounting for 60% of exports. Upon joining the EU a customs and regulatory border would have to be erected between Scotland and its biggest customer by far. The EU takes up less than 20% of Scotland's exports. The EU institutions are demonstrably undemocratic. As well as having its own independent Government and Parliament, Scotland enjoys something of a democratic surfeit at Westminster, with 56 of 650 odd MPs. At Brussels Scotland would provide 7 of the European Parliament's potential 712 MEPs. The European Parliament, however, does not make EU laws, whereas Westminster, outside of the EU, makes British ones.
The UK's finances are a matter of public record, they are not invented by the PM. If Scotland's public expenditure deficit really is the near 22% currently recorded, then a future independent Scottish government would have a bitch of a struggle to reduce that deficit to the 3% required under EU rules. It would be what I have seen described as 'sado-austerity' and would potentially involve the closure of all public services, including schools and hospitals. All to hand that precious, newly-won independence over to Brussels?
Oh, and that, of course, is if Brussels will accept Scotland as a member.
Turning off the taps? Lets see how the value of water goes...That’s excellent news, problem solved. Presumably there would be no issue if HM treasury turned off the taps tomorrow.. Just think, Scotland could have covered their covid bill, build houses for everyone and plenty more. Amazing they hadn’t thought if it before. You’re going to tell me Wales could economically stand in its own 2 feet next.