Ukraine III

[Jim Audiomisc]

West do have propaganda TANK. East propaganda pistol

Curious to know: How much time have you spent in the "the west", where, and what did you do whilst there?

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Russia has accepted almost 500,000 refugees from Ukraine.

If we accept that, and 'western' values as official and accurate, it indicates that an order of magnitude more refugees have gone to 'western' countries. It seems reasonable to guess that the ones who have fone to Russia were mainly people who felt themselves to be 'Russian' and were in the areas that were 'disputed' before Russia invaded the rest of Ukraine.

Calling that invasion a 'police action' doesn't change it being a matter of Russian tanks and troops doing this at the behest of Putin. Not 'western' tanks going into Russia or the disputed areas.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

BBC balance is so last century thing.

BBC 'balance' has actually evolved over the years. There was a time when they routinely got an incompetent ex-Tory-minister on as the person to argue against the 'science' of Climate Change. Having someone argue the opposite of what is known by academics knowledgeable about a topic as "the bleedn' obvious" for the sake of (fake) 'balance' does have its limits, perhaps.

However I'm inclined to take BBC reports more seriously than OSAF on youtube, etc.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

You're going to have to explain that..

I think he's having troubles with his shift keys.

 

[anubisgrau]

Not 'western' tanks going into Russia or the disputed areas.

You have better, more efficient things to send there, haven't you?

 

[Ian G]

I don't know.

Russian society was shocked by the demonstrative executions of Russian prisoners of war. There are a lot of such videos. Russians do not treat the population or prisoners of war in this way. They try to save lives as much as possible. After such videos, society began to understand better what and why we are doing there.

Lies, lies and more lies

 

[CarrotMan]

If we accept that, and 'western' values as official and accurate, it indicates that an order of magnitude more refugees have gone to 'western' countries. It seems reasonable to guess that the ones who have fone to Russia were mainly people who felt themselves to be 'Russian' and were in the areas that were 'disputed' before Russia invaded the rest of Ukraine.

Or, according to many accounts: People who were "evacuated" to Russia against their will...

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Curious to know: How much time have you spent in the "the west", where, and what did you do whilst there?

Perhaps a short trip to Salisbury, to admire the cathedral?

 

[Wilson]

What is that Trump supporters like about Putin?

His fashion sense.

 

[Colin L]

I only ask you to doubt in any infornation you get. Don't rely on for emotional response. As it supposed to work this way.

I was monitoring tens of Pro Ukranian and Pro Russian telegram/youtube channel. There is a lot of first hand info. Now I'm completely exosted.

I dont watch TV, any Russian mainstream media.

I like the idea that this "un-biased" individual gets his news from YouTube and Telegram - those bastions of unflinching unbiased news and opinions - no nutters or influencers there.
There's a whiff of the troll farm about our Dmitre.

 

[wacko]

Not forgot exactly, but I do confess to getting confused by the 'Stans'. Suffice to say that none of them are high on the list of 'Successful World Democracies'.

Good God a thousand apologies Mull: I see I wrote 'send' instead of 'sent'. Thank you for not exploding.

 

[kensalriser]

I have no idea why people are treading on eggshells around a brainwashed scumbag who is all but openly supporting looting, terror, destruction, rape and murder. His viewpoint is sickening and adds nothing to the conversation except to remind us how effective are Kremlin lies and propaganda.

 

[paulfromcamden]

I have no idea why people are treading on eggshells around a brainwashed scumbag who is all but openly supporting looting, terror, destruction, rape and murder. His viewpoint is sickening and adds nothing to the conversation except to remind us how effective are Kremlin lies and propaganda.

Because he's just an ordinary bloke like us who happens to live in Moscow? If I lived in Russia there's a good chance I would hold similar views. Would that make me a scumbag? Are the majority of Russians who support the war scumbags? They're not monsters who support rape and torture - they simply don't believe the Russian military are the perpetrators.

I'd prefer to think of it not so much as treading on eggshells as remaining friendly and civil with a fellow member regardless of whether or not I think they're correct.

 

[anubisgrau]

Russia considers US and NATO vehicles transporting weapons in Ukraine as legitimate military targets, - Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Are there any NATO vehicles transporting anything in Ukraine? As far as I can see, NATO has scrupulously avoided direct involvement. Where it has stepped in, it has been to provide temporary cover to other states, to replace something those states have given to Ukraine. But in any event, any weapons, or transport of weapons would normally be a legitimate military target in wartime anyway, so this sounds like a thinly-veiled attempt to imply that NATO is active in Ukraine and thereby justify upping the ante WRT NATO states.

 

[PsB]

Russia considers US and NATO vehicles transporting weapons in Ukraine as legitimate military targets, - Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov

Good luck with that.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I have no idea why people are treading on eggshells around a brainwashed scumbag who is all but openly supporting looting, terror, destruction, rape and murder. His viewpoint is sickening and adds nothing to the conversation except to remind us how effective are Kremlin lies and propaganda.

It need not be 'treading on eggshells' but responding in a way that isn't simply a flat LOL or dismissal.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Because he's just an ordinary bloke like us who happens to live in Moscow? If I lived in Russia there's a good chance I would hold similar views. Would that make me a scumbag? Are the majority of Russians who support the war scumbags? They're not monsters who support rape and torture - they simply don't believe the Russian military are the perpetrators.

I'd prefer to think of it not so much as treading on eggshells as remaining friendly and civil with a fellow member regardless of whether or not I think they're correct.

Yes. A question I was going to ask was: If someone here fluently reads and writes Russian, would they be welcome to join groups like Russian-based web forums on audio and put their 'western' views and understanding of events in Ukraine there for debate, and would be given a fair considration?

 

[Mullardman]

Let's be clear here. 'Russia' considers anything, real or imagined, which offends Putin's ego and the 'special' view of the World which he uses to justify his 'special' military operation', as a legitimate target.

He's a modern day Hitler, with bigger toys.

 

[messengerman]

^ You forgot Kazakhstan where Putin recently send military to put down a popular uprising.

The Russians soldiers didn't stay long, a day or two IIRC. I don't recall it getting much coverage or even any comment from Western politicians. Likely Putin took note of that indifference, licked his little pencil, and added it to his list of reasons he might get away with invading Ukraine.

Interestingly, the suggestion offered by Aljazeera (who did cover it) was that the Chinese took a very dim view of armed Russians stomping around a country they now fancy as being their doormat no less than Russia's and so Putin backed out sharpish. Whether or not that is true I couldn't say. Sounds plausible, I suppose, absent anything else.