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Ukraine III

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[email protected] said:
"Taboo hatred accumulated by Europeans for years should have broken out sometime, and finally found a way out in February 2022, bringing down all its potencies on Russia and Russians" (Renada Espebe).
Indeed, in "elven" Europe, one could only love and respect everyone, which is contrary to human nature itself, although "moments of hatred" were periodically allowed, primarily against Muslims. Now hatred has been given the green light and all that accumulated hatred can be poured out on Russians, Russia and its culture, now it is not reprehensible, but commendable.
And this makes the current conflict much deeper.
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Sure. Everyone is demanding machetes to go chop up Russians. Kill kill kill is on everyone's lips. It's enough to make you cry!
 
paulfromcamden said:
Because he's just an ordinary bloke like us who happens to live in Moscow? If I lived in Russia there's a good chance I would hold similar views. Would that make me a scumbag? Are the majority of Russians who support the war scumbags? They're not monsters who support rape and torture - they simply don't believe the Russian military are the perpetrators.

I'd prefer to think of it not so much as treading on eggshells as remaining friendly and civil with a fellow member regardless of whether or not I think they're correct.
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I don't think I know any ordinary people in favour of looting, destruction, terror, rape and murder. At least, I hope I don't.

Our friend clearly has access to the internet and almost certainly a wide range of credible media sources, and has good English comprehension. His position is not borne of ignorance but choice: he has chosen to believe the propaganda of his dictator President and by doing so supports everything he is doing. I've seen people who support the UK government get a much tougher time here.
 
^ It's interesting to have somebody who has drunk the Putin Kool Aid in for the conversation is it not though - to see how the rhetoric stands up to discussion ?
 
[email protected] said:
I don't know.

Russian society was shocked by the demonstrative executions of Russian prisoners of war. There are a lot of such videos. Russians do not treat the population or prisoners of war in this way. They try to save lives as much as possible. After such videos, society began to understand better what and why we are doing there.
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That's EXACTLY what German Nazis said for five years of WW2. The people who lived near concentration camps said afterwards they had no idea.

It will be very difficult for Russians to claim ignorance in the internet age.
 
[email protected] said:
Russia has accepted almost 500,000 refugees from Ukraine. I donate for refugees fond regularly.

I do not deny that Russia is responsible for the deaths of thousands of peaceful Ukrainians. All issues and claims to each other had to be resolved in negotiations.
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Russia deported many Ukranians into remote Russian towns and retained their passports. A large number of Ukranian children dissappeared along the same direction, with rubber stamp Duma about to pass a law making it super easy for Russians to adopt Ukrainian children who are declared "orphaned" by Russia.

But since Russians often don't want to raise their own children and Russia's own orphanages are full, that isn't likely.

Russian orphan situation grew even more dire after Putin forbade American adoptions because "Americans were using Russian children as organ donors."
 
DimitryZ said:
Please stop spreading Russian propaganda.

From Wikipedia:

Conspiracy
According to journalist Antoine Hasday, published by Conspiracy Watch , an interview with Jacques Baud given to RT France "ticks all the boxes for geopolitical conspiracy theories" [ 18 ] . The latter, sometimes invited by the traditional media, also intervened on the far-right web-television TV Libertés , as well as previously on RT France [ 18 ] . Interviewed on this last channel by Frédéric Taddeï in September 2020, he notably minimizes the human toll of the Darfur war, which he reduces to 2,500 dead (against 300,000 according to the UN) and denies the responsibility of theSyrian army in the massacres in Homs in 2011 and in the chemical attacks in Ghouta , Khan Sheikhoun and Douma between 2013 and 2018 [ 18 ] . Taking up the official arguments of the Syrian regime of Bashar el-Assad , he also asserts that the photographs taken by the military photographer " Caesar " are not those of political opponents who died under torture, but of soldiers of the Syrian army [ 18 ] . Jacques Baud also whitewashes Russia - considering that the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal was caused by "food poisoning" and that the poisoning of Alexei Navalny is probably "the work of the mafia" [ 18 ] .
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I wasn't aware that I was posting Russian propaganda.

As I said some things in that article rang true based on what I'd read elsewhere.

I'm trying to remain open minded - as I think that the mainstream media view available here in the UK is likely biased and appears (to me) to be superficial.

To be clear my view is the the Russian invasion of Ukraine is both illegal and immoral. That doesn't mean (to me) that the wider context is irrelevant.
 
rtrt said:
I wasn't aware that I was posting Russian propaganda.

As I said some things in that article rang true based on what I'd read elsewhere.

I'm trying to remain open minded - as I think that the mainstream media view available here in the UK is likely biased and appears (to me) to be superficial.

To be clear my view is the the Russian invasion of Ukraine is both illegal and immoral. That doesn't mean (to me) that the wider context is irrelevant.
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Easy to find out more about the source before offering it to others.

Anybody who broadcasts that Scripals' Novichok attack was "food poisoning" (resulted in near death of the targets, death of a British citizen and multiple injuries) should not be promoted.
 
As I understand everything you don't like or agree is BS and Putin's propaganda.

Imagine Irish Republican Army will taught that "they need to kill all British to be really free and independent". Then imagine Russia, China, Belorussia will train IRA soldiers on their territory and provide them with tons of weapon. Then IRA ask to join Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) to defend. Do you get relevant context?
 
[email protected] said:
As I understand everything you don't like or agree is BS and Putin's propaganda.

Imagine Irish Republican Army will taught that "they need to kill all British to be really free and independent". Then imagine Russia, China, Belorussia will train IRA soldiers on their territory and provide them with tons of weapon. Then IRA ask to join Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) to defend. Do you get relevant context?
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I thought you'd fvcked off. Yet here you are, back with your tedious and intelligence-insulting circular arguments. How about reconsidering the sex and travel option?
 
-alan- said:
^ It's interesting to have somebody who has drunk the Putin Kool Aid in for the conversation is it not though - to see how the rhetoric stands up to discussion ?
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No, I don't think it's interesting or edifying at all. We know what the Kremlin line is, we hear it every day. How would you feel about having a rational and enlightening conversation with, for example, a Holocaust denier?
 
[email protected] said:
Cancel Russian culture and Russian
Dehumanization of all Russians (you are here)
Eliminate all the Russians
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Again with the regurgitated propaganda.

Russian musicians and writers have produced some of the finest art in the world. And of course, many of them were dissidents from and persecuted by the authoritarian regimes of their time. You know, like Putin and Pussy Riot.

Putin is not Russia and Russia is not Putin.
 
[email protected] said:
Cancel Russian culture and Russian
Dehumanization of all Russians (you are here)
Eliminate all the Russians
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I have no issue with you posting here, but you have to admit that is utter bullshit. No one is doing that at all. We are all horrified that the Russia we have so much respect for is descending into Putin’s totalitarianism and fascism. It is just as depressing to see the damage to Russia as it is the carnage and destruction Putin is bringing to Ukraine, or that he brought Aleppo previously. My hope is to see Putin charged with war-crimes and Russia back in the civilised world with a democratic government actually representing it’s people. You’d not have to believe bullshit propaganda and made-up popularity “stats” then!
 
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