Innuos announcement countdown

[gustavm]

No. I am not talking about that. If you worked in BT then you will know that back in the late 1970s/early 80s we had significant data loss problems which cost the company significant amounts of money in compensation. This is what I am referring too and it was nothing to do with any transmission equipment design or fault either. Just data loss/timing errors between point A and point B.

I joined in the mid/late 1980's so have no knowledge of that, but am intrigued what it could be. Presumably though it must involved distances where the attenuation/degradation due to phase or frequency-response was hugely greater than you'd encounter with a typical digital audio cable though, so I remain sceptical whether its relevant to audio.

Regarding Hi-Fi network storage devices: if you have a very good system and can hear the difference between a basic Mac/PC and a dedicated audio designed server like from Taiko, Pink Fawn, Novafidelity, Innuos then what is the problem? If people can hear an improvement and think it is worth the money then what's the problem. If you can't hear the difference and others can, what's the problem? Let people decide what they prefer. After all they do it with cars, cameras, bicycles, motorbikes, etc etc. I have looked inside several of those expensive servers and there is nothing I would consider overcomplication of the design. Just understanding the problems and using good basic engineering to address them, like good power supply design.

There's no "problem" - of course its up to people to how they spend their own money. I'm highly sceptical of the worth of many of these products (or at least, of the cost-effectiveness of the ultra-expensive ones), but I'm not frothing at the mouth at it. But as this is an open forum, don't see why I shouldn't comment (occasionally - this is such a well-worn topic I usually don't bother!)

 

[S_J]

Innuos released info about their v2.0 OS last month, it's in beta test right now and there's even a dedicated app now too. Info is on their FB page. I suppose now some of you can look forward to complaining that the app doesn't have a weather forecast function or doesn't support *.OMGWTFBBQ files or whatever it is you use

 

[sq225917]

It's the fact many of their products are pointless with modern dacs that puts people off, that and you can do the same with a pi based system for pennies.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Yet the company continues to grow and expand quite successfully

 

[Woodface]

I will be getting one soon, how daft am I

 

[S_J]

It's the fact many of their products are pointless with modern dacs that puts people off, that and you can do the same with a pi based system for pennies.

Why bother with a Pi though, when you could re-use any old PC or laptop you happen to have lying around. Computational effort required is next to none, you could probably use a 20-year old machine no problem at all. It will all sound exactly the same won't it?

 

[Amber Audio]

Why bother with a Pi though, when you could re-use any old PC or laptop you happen to have lying around. Computational effort required is next to none, you could probably use a 20-year old machine no problem at all. It will all sound exactly the same won't it?

Form factor, space, ability to locate anywhere and be hidden, convenience of control App, community behind it for specific tech advice, power consumption and zero fan noise spring to mind. PC’s and laptops, especially the power bricks can be very noisy electrically.

 

[sq225917]

I do actually use an 11 year old mac as my primary music server, the pi is a standalone server/dac project.

 

[Mullardman]

If I might interrupt the high level esoteric and technically brilliant level of discussion wot is going on here..

I bought an Innuos Zen Mini precisely because it does what it says on the tin. I have ripped all of my CD collection to it, plus a lot of vinyl 'ripped' to CD and it just works. That decision followed on from years and years of confused and often highly partisan discussion of streaming using a million people's wildy differing preferences as to kit, methodology etc. which all left me cold. And yes. I've even encountered a friend's experiences with a Pi.

Frankly.. at 72 and with a failing everything.. I have no desire to become an IT geek. I just want to be able to play music without spending half the night looking for a specific CD.
I'm also sick of tripping over the bloody things. so they are now all in the loft.

I can only explain my feelings about this in terms of an analogy.

Imagine I wanted some way to hear music in my home. One person offers me the opportunity to buy a decent Hi-Fi system. The other.. offers to teach me how to build an amplifier, and a set of speakers. Both approaches are valid.. but one might be preferable...to me...

Having got that sorted I moved on to using 'player' apps to 'pull back' music from my Innuos, to my Tablet and phone..mostly for convenience in using headphones, either wired.. or via Blutooth.

But.. I now find myself wanting to recover some of MY music, which I paid for and which is resident on MY Innuos server which I bought with MY money.

The first thing I note is that whilst the Innuos offers many ways of IMPORTING music.. it offers precisely none for EXPORTING.. if you exclude the backup function.

So.. it has so far proved impossible for me to move any music files from my Innuos into the storage of my phone. Please note that I'm looking to have music files RESIDENT on my phone.. so that they can be played from the phone, at any time, anywhere inependent of any wi-fi/network connection.

I'm open to all offers of advice..

 

[Strictly Stereo]

If I might interrupt the high level esoteric and technically brilliant level of discussion wot is going on here..

I bought an Innuos Zen Mini precisely because it does what it says on the tin. I have ripped all of my CD collection to it, plus a lot of vinyl 'ripped' to CD and it just works. That decision followed on from years and years of confused and often highly partisan discussion of streaming using a million people's wildy differing preferences as to kit, methodology etc. which all left me cold. And yes. I've even encountered a friend's experiences with a Pi.

I can only explain my feelings about this in terms of an analogy.

Imagine I wanted some way to hear music in my home. One person offers me the opportunity to buy a decent Hi-Fi system. The other.. offers to teach me how to build an amplifier, and a set of speakers. Both approaches are valid.. but one might be preferable...to me...

Having got that sorted I moved on to using 'player' apps to 'pull back' music from my Innuos, to my Tablet and phone..mostly for convenience in using headphones, either wired.. or via Blutooth.

But.. I now find myself wanting to recover some of MY music, which I paid for and which is resident on MY Innuos server which I bought with MY money.

The first thing I note is that whilst the Innuos offers many ways of IMPORTING music.. it offers precisely none for EXPORTING.. if you exclude the backup function.

So.. it has so far proved impossible for me to move any music files from my Innuos into the storage of my phone. Please note that I'm looking to have music files RESIDENT on my phone.. so that they can be played from the phone, at any time, anywhere inependent of an wi-fi/network connection.

I'm open to all offers of advice..

Innuos provides access to music stored on the server's internal drive via Windows-style (SMB) file shares. Support for this technology has been built into pretty much every desktop operating system (macOS, Windows, Linux etc) for decades now and it can be added to mobile platforms like iOS and Android via a vast array of apps. The issue with mobile platforms is that apps tend to be sandboxed with their own compartmentalised data storage, rather than the common filesystem used by desktop operating systems. However, over time Apple (and presumably Google too but I am really an Apple guy) has introduced ways to share files and data between apps, so I am sure there is a way to do this. It might be a bit clunky, but that is down to whoever designed your phone, rather than Innuos.

You are welcome to give me a call on 0161 399 0993 if you would like some help with this.

 

[davidsrsb]

No. I am not talking about that. If you worked in BT then you will know that back in the late 1970s/early 80s we had significant data loss problems which cost the company significant amounts of money in compensation. This is what I am referring too and it was nothing to do with any transmission equipment design or fault either. Just data loss/timing errors between point A and point B and nothing to do with any point of conversion.

Data loss in that era would have been frame slipping in the G703 Megastream or G.704 network. Back then nearly everything in the real world was dial up modem, G.704 PCM or X.25
This was long before TCP/IP became to norm and clock synchronisation was an important thing to get right.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Not sure I’m seeing the phone issue at all. Backup to portable HDD. That backup is then plugged into a PC. Plug phone into PC. Drag and drop. Innuos 2.0 also provides support for USB stick play lists which effectively mean you can have your entire music collection on same and take it where you will.

 

[Mullardman]

Innuos provides access to music stored on the server's internal drive via Windows-style (SMB) file shares. Support for this technology has been built into pretty much every desktop operating system (macOS, Windows, Linux etc) for decades now and it can be added to mobile platforms like iOS and Android via a vast array of apps. The issue with mobile platforms is that apps tend to be sandboxed with their own compartmentalised data storage, rather than the common filesystem used by desktop operating systems. However, over time Apple (and presumably Google too but I am really an Apple guy) has introduced ways to share files and data between apps, so I am sure there is a way to do this. It might be a bit clunky, but that is down to whoever designed your phone, rather than Innuos.

You are welcome to give me a call on 0161 399 0993 if you would like some help with this.

Thanks for that. I may take you up on your offer of a call at some point.

Presently I'm awaiting a third response from Innuos, whose first response expressed sympathy that I was having 'connection issues'. I'm not. They also asked me to outline model number, connection method and OS update status..all of which I'd put into my first support request.

So.. I provided the info again and Innuos' second response advised to get a wired Ethernet connection (as opposed to my present Netgear Powerline Adaptors which are on the same 'ring' a few metres apart and have caused no problems..despite which I do plan to install a wire) Next.. I was advised to update my Innuos software. I could swear I'd tried that and seen no available updates.. but maybe I was wrong. This time, I successfully updated from 1.4.5. to 1.4.8. Having done all of this I was requested to contact Innuos again if the 'issues' persisted. Which they have.

So, my latest communication with Innuos was much more simple. I reported my successful update and then asked: 'So.. in summary.. my question is: Is it possible to copy music files from my Innuos, to my phone..and if so.. how do I do this?'

I shall see what they say.

In more general terms.. I have to say I'm pleased that Innuos are working on their own App.. as it looks to me like the apps recommended for Android device users, such as Orange Squeeze, Squeezeplay etc.. are getting little support these days. Still..speaking of these apps, they both feature a 'download to device' option..which results, at best, in a brief 'download started' message.. then nothing. Disappointing.

Not sure I’m seeing the phone issue at all. Backup to portable HDD. That backup is then plugged into a PC. Plug phone into PC. Drag and drop.

I can see that you can't see the phone issue Mike, but what you suggest is precisely what I have done.. to no avail. I've successfully moved a few albums which have been hanging around on my PC since way before I had the Innuos.. but I simply cannot find a way to make my phone accept files backed up from the Innuos, even if I copy from the back up to the PC first.

Innuos 2.0 also provides support for USB stick play lists which effectively mean you can have your entire music collection on same and take it where you will.

Sounds good.. though this thread is the first I've heard of Innuos 2.0 and it remains to be seen whether 2.0 can be applied to my 'ancient' Zen Mini Mk 3... purchased August 2019.

 

[k90tour]

Hi Mullardman.
I had a Zenith (shouldn't have sold it) and made a back up in case I ever bought another. That back up is sitting in a hard drive and all the file folders are there. I can do a search for an artist or album and recover the files.

 

[Mullardman]

I can do a search for an artist or album and recover the files.

But can you move them to another device?

 

[Mike Hughes]

Your issue here is with your phone not the Innuos. Moving entire collections from a Zenith to USB or whatever is fantastically straightforward. As regards 2.0 the 1.4.9 interim update should be available today and that as well as2 are available to all Mk. 3 Innuos devices.

 

[Amber Audio]

Info below might help - if you can see the Music folder potentially you can drag the FLAC files to a Micro SD Card and stick it in a Phone or DAP. Or onto your Computer and manipulate it from there.


https://innuos.com/kb/accessing-the-music-files-on-the-innuos-server/

Accessing the Shared Folders on the Innuos Server

• Support
  
• How-To
  
• Managing the Music Library
  
• Accessing the Shared Folders on the Innuos Server

You can access the stored music files on the Innuos Music Server using your computer as the Innuos server exposes these as Network Shared Folders, just like a regular NAS device. There are 3 Shared Folders created on the root of the server:

1. Auto-Import – This shared folder is used as an area to copy files on your computer that you would like to Import into the Music Server.
2. Music – This is where your music files are.
3. Unsorted – This is a generic folder that can be used to place music to be organised or for non audio files. Music on this folder will still show on the Music Library.

Accessing the Shared Folders on Mac OS X

1. Using Finder on Mac OS X select the drop-down menu: GO > select Network > select your Innuos server.

image of MacOS Finder may vary depending on MacOS version
2. If the system requests you to login, just login as guest. No user/password is required. You should then be able to see the 3 Shared Folders as described in the intro above.

The 3 Shared Folders on the Innuos Music Servers


Accessing the Shared Folders on Windows

1. Open File Explorer and go to Network. This should normally list your Innuos Music Servers on the Computers section.

Network sample with Innuos units
If you have your Innuos Server configured for UPnP Streamers (which is the default) you will see an entry within Media Devices. This is access to the UPnP Server and will not list your files. You should access the entries under Computer instead.




Tags: All Servers​

 

[k90tour]

Once I have located them in my back up drive, then they are free to go wherever I like.
I've just had a look at my back up hard drive, which I connected to the Innuos. The First folder is 'Backup". But inside that, the subfolders are named according to the album or artist. I think you can choose this when you rip the CD. Anyway, I remembered that I ripped a Murray Perahia recording of Schumann pieces and just to check that this works, I've gone into the backup folder and sure enough, there is a folder marked Murray Perahia and all the files and images are in there.

 

[Mike Hughes]

A couple of things to add.

1 - it’s possible to access the 3 folders on a phone or tablet. So, I for example, have access on my iPad Pro having linked via the Files app.

2 - Innuos support is exemplary almost without fail. I suspect the comms describe above were caused by miscommunication rather than some failing on the part of Innuos.

 

[Mullardman]

2 - Innuos support is exemplary almost without fail. I suspect the comms describe above were caused by miscommunication rather than some failing on the part of Innuos.

I don't doubt it. However, I think I made the issue clear in my first message to them.

Hello!

May I say firstly that I am very happy with my Zen Mini Mk III, which works very well with Orange Sqeeze as controller and Squeezeplay as a player.

However.. I have an issue which you may be able to help me with. I seem unable to copy music from my Innuos to my Samsung A52 Smart Phone.

I have successfully moved a few albums which were already present on my PC, by simply connecting my phone to the PC by USB and using the 'drag and drop' method.

However.. when I try to move files from the Innuos..either from a back up disc (Western Digital Elements 1Tb) or from a copy of the back up placed on the PC. ..I have no success.

My backed up files are all FLAC and my phone ought to be able to auto transcode to MP3.. but whatever I try..I seem only able to copy empty folders.

Can you suggest a solution?

Reply:

Thank you for getting in touch with us. We're sorry to hear you're experiencing issues connecting with your Innuos ZENmini Mk.3 server/streamer. You have mentioned that you are connecting it through Powerline range extenders. I'm afraid that network range extenders (Powerline or Wi-Fi) are known to be prone to network glitches, instability and therefore unreliability. A direct Ethernet cable connection is always to be preferred and advised. Latest innuOS versions did introduced some changes to better cope with these devices.
Please check which innuOS version your server is currently using and make sure it's updated to the latest innuOS v1.4.8. You may update it easily by going to innuOS dashboard > Settings > System > Update System page. Please bear in mind that it's a long update and can take up to 2 hours to complete. You should get a restart prompt at the very end. Please do not interrupt the process or restart the server before the restart prompt or, at the limit, 2 hours have passed.

With the server fully updated do the same issues persist? Please do let us know if you require any further assistance.