advertisement


Innuos announcement countdown

Innuos told me before Christmas that this was going to be about the same price as the USB Reclocker, which is a very good device. I have a Zen Mk3 with 4TB hard drive and cost me £2,000 new, so £2,600 for this new device seems a bit expensive.
 
I just use WiFi these days.

If there's a difference between WiFi on or off (i.e. no network at all involved in playback) it's very hard to hear.

However good a job this thing does at reducing "network noise", it can't beat no network at all.
 
Heckyman said:
However good a job this thing does at reducing "network noise", it can't beat no network at all.
Click to expand...
Difficult to fault your logic there.
I guess the only issue can be with hi-res file dropouts from time to time if network speed isn't great.
Also worth noting that all Innuos gear is wired connection only (I think).
 
webster said:
Also worth noting that all Innuos gear is wired connection only (I think).
Click to expand...

Not to knock Innuos or anyone else, but I suspect a lot of the reasoning for this is to avoid customer complaints due to badly set up home networks, plus the difficulty in designing motherboards that properly isolate the WiFi.
 
Heckyman said:
Not to knock Innuos or anyone else, but I suspect a lot of the reasoning for this is to avoid customer complaints due to badly set up home networks, plus the difficulty in designing motherboards that properly isolate the WiFi.
Click to expand...
That’s the next step isn’t it, an Audiophile Wi-Fi Router, trickier to do though as you can't really dumb down the tech enough to be zero touch/cables only.
 
I think we're arguing semantics. Transmission jitter is any deviation from accurate periodicity, until the point of conversion it's timing error, at the point of conversion it becomes embedded as frequency error.
 
Heckyman said:
Not to knock Innuos or anyone else, but I suspect a lot of the reasoning for this is to avoid customer complaints due to badly set up home networks, plus the difficulty in designing motherboards that properly isolate the WiFi.
Click to expand...

The reason is that one of the main use cases for music servers is to stream music to other parts of the house. Wired Ethernet provides much faster and more reliable throughput than WiFi in real world scenarios, which means that it can support more simultaneous streams.
 
Last edited:
I have a warehouse full of cryogenically treated spacetime, I would be happy to chunk it up for wireless tweakers and the price is (relatively) reasonable.

Ideal if you want to upgrade your wifi connection - simply replace your regular, noisy spacetime in your house with this stuff and your wireless streaming will be transformed.

Our special process reduces quantum fluctuations that can cause photon disturbances. We don't even need a femtoclock or special antennas. It just works and best of all your significant other will never question what you've been spending your money on - it's completely invisible (to human senses anyway) so no one can object to it, say it's ugly or clashes with the decor. It doesn't even take up any more, er, space than regular spacetime.

(No refunds, natch)
 
I would wager that most people who stream have one main device which is less and less likely to be fed by ethernet and, even if it is, streaming elsewhere in their property will be by wi-fi. If you feed your device ethernet or connect something like a Zen Mini to say a Naim streamer then switches have a purpose but it’s a arguably a limited user case compared to other options. Most people will get by without a switch coming anywhere near their network and there is of course an argument that if it sounds good enough to you then it is good enough. In some cases it will be essential to sort out issues related to network configuration; extraneous noise etc. but mostly it’s a luxury item.

That, in itself, is okay. The nature of our hobby is that most of the hardware and software has a limited user case. Value is very much in the eye of the beholder.

In this instance Innuos may have been stung by the criticism of this coming out ahead of their app but it’s also given them their highest profile in places that talk hi-fi. I’m not sure that’s an entirely terrible thing. Unlike many products on the market today their stuff just works and, as networking can seem incredibly complex, the stuff which just works tends to win out. Sonos sound quality is nothing I would ever call hi-if but they are where they are because they just work and have an understandable UI. Innuos move in a slightly different space but they’re building a very attractive ecosystem. You can start with one box which stores and streams and has a DAC or move up and buy a separate DAC. There are multiple user cases and you can now upgrade without having to make leaps to things like Statement. It looks bland but once you show people what it does then the simplicity is engaging.

I’m not sure I get the critiques of the pricing either. It matches what the USB does for people who use ethernet and has the same price as the USB. That seems logical to me. Also easy to forget there are 2 LPS in that box. Overall you could look at it and say that compared to what else you’d need to go with, for example, a Regen, it’s a bit of a bargain. I don’t need it but I didn’t see that as a reason to necessarily question the logic for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GT
sq225917 said:
I think we're arguing semantics. Transmission jitter is any deviation from accurate periodicity, until the point of conversion it's timing error, at the point of conversion it becomes embedded as frequency error.
Click to expand...

And for a DAC using asynchronous USB input, unless its so gross as to cause bit-errors, its irrelevant since timing for the D-A process is purely local.
 
G T Audio said:
You're wrong Keith.

I don't have to look it up. I worked in BT where digital data was transmitted decades before digital audio came about. Timing issues (jitter) and data loss could happen for a number of reasons in the transmission of data and nothing to do with any data conversion or processing. Thankfully, we, as in BT, investigated and found out what caused these issues. The timing issues were rectified eventually, but BT lost a great deal of money over it, plus a huge investigation that took place, as well as significant amounts of time and money to sort it out.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to accumulation of timing jitter in transmission systems, this occurred in the regenerators that were used then. A regenerator looks to detect the "1 or 0" status at each bit interval, and apply retiming. The latter relied on a clock-recovery circuit which was imperfect, and subject to the influence of the data pattern. (I used to work at BT too, for some years on both regenerated and later optically-amplified long-haul transmission systems.)

This is very different from transmission along a simple, passive USB cable! So I think your comments here are somewhat spurious. (Not getting at you specifically, but HIFI manufacturers, in particular vendors of expensive digital kit such as "HIFI" network storage devices, have a huge vested interest in overcomplicating and inventing problems that don't exist.)
 
Last edited:
Cereal Killer said:
If you use roon (via USB > DAC for example) a fancy switch can't offer anything as all data is buffered into RAM before playing.
Click to expand...

Like I said, a limited user case. Not necessarily a bad thing.

The issue of Roon is a can of worms I’d rather steer clear of. FWIW I think people are easily impressed by something that’s not especially unique or fantastic and which will soon enough be replaced as manufacturers start to replicate and better the functionality with their own apps.
 
gustavm said:
If you are referring to accumulation of timing jitter in transmission systems, this occurred in the regenerators that were used then. A regenerator looks to detect the "1 or 0" status at each bit interval, and apply retiming. The latter relied on a clock-recovery circuit which was imperfect, and subject to the influence of the data pattern. (I used to work at BT too, for some years on both regenerated and later optically-amplified long-haul transmission systems.)

This is very different from transmission along a simple, passive USB cable! So I think your comments here are somewhat spurious. (Not getting at you specifically, but HIFI manufacturers, in particular vendors of expensive digital kit such as "HIFI" network storage devices, have a huge vested interest in overcomplicating and inventing problems that don't exist.)
Click to expand...

No. I am not talking about that. If you worked in BT then you will know that back in the late 1970s/early 80s we had significant data loss problems which cost the company significant amounts of money in compensation. This is what I am referring too and it was nothing to do with any transmission equipment design or fault either. Just data loss/timing errors between point A and point B and nothing to do with any point of conversion.

Regarding Hi-Fi network storage devices: if you have a very good system and can hear the difference between a basic Mac/PC and a dedicated audio designed server like from Taiko, Pink Fawn, Novafidelity, Innuos then what is the problem? If people can hear an improvement and think it is worth the money then what's the problem. If you can't hear the difference and others can, what's the problem? Let people decide what they prefer. After all they do it with cars, cameras, bicycles, motorbikes, etc etc. I have looked inside several of those expensive servers and there is nothing I would consider overcomplication of the design. Just understanding the problems and using good basic engineering to address them, like good power supply design.

Below is a photo from inside Taiko's Extreme server production facility. Each one of those boxes is over £30K worth of server. Looks like they are doing good business doesn't it?

taiko_audio_sgm_extreme_music_server_review_mono_and_stereo_matej_isak_2020_2021_2022_%2B-%2B2.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top