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Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

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TheDecameron said:
^This is the voice of Farage^.
Wait till you see public polling on Brexit next Spring...I think Labour are going to do exceedingly well next year.
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I hope you are right but I have a nasty feeling that greater austerity leads to an environment where rampant nationalism can prosper, the right wing know lying works and in the US have given up on any pretence of decency and fair play, lying and cheating has been too successful for them and it’s not gone unnoticed in the Tory party, Boris won’t be the last spiv prime minister. No wonder Russians moved here in droves, they had seen it all before and knew how to extract maximum profit from it.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
NO. The electorate need to be TOLD what they want and then conditioned into really really wanting it.... just like the tories have done to them for decades.

Corbyn is exactly what we need, the answer etc etc (in many respects anyway!). The problem is the media brainwashing that makes so many see him as the enemy, what they need to avoid. Even I have to hand it to them... getting turkeys to vote for xmas is quite an achievement! The complete dominance and control of the nation by the wealthy over centuries is ingrained in the collective memory... many seem to think the likes of grease-smugg and blojo really are superior to themselves and have some god given right to rule... and, further, that any attempt to redress this is "unpatriotic", "unBritish". Voting for xmas? They're selling a kidney to buy the Paxo!

The big problem is it's far easier to get people to vote for "give me all the sweeties" (and we'll take some from those people so you get even more if you vote tory!) than it is to get them to see that there are enough sweeties for everyone and that the grown up right thing to do is to share them.

It's ironic really that the very things children have to be taught as regards share and share alike, good manners and consideration cost nothing, bullying is wrong, especially against the disabled boy or the black boy, and all as part of the making of a civilised human being are the first things to be tossed out of the pram by the tory mind set when they reach so called adulthood!
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Has the last GE result not established that Corbyn was not the way forward in terms of winning the election and being in government or for that matter having the numbers to be a credible opposition?
 
Colin Barron said:
Has the last GE result not established that Corbyn was not the way forward in terms of winning the election and being in government or for that matter having the numbers to be a credible opposition?
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You obviously didn't read the post you are replying to thoroughly. It makes the point that although Corbyn was exactly what the country needs the electorate was too brainwashed by the right wing MSM to realise it.
 
Colin Barron said:
Has the last GE result not established that Corbyn was not the way forward in terms of winning the election and being in government or for that matter having the numbers to be a credible opposition?
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it begs the question that why is a totally corrupt Tory preferable to a dim socialist?
 
Good article on why socialists leave the Labour Party. Labour has shifted so far to the right to accommodate an ever right-wing England that it can’t shift back without tearing itself apart; Time to build something brighter & more relevant for younger leftists & really work on grass roots basics, local networking & local resilience rather than propping up some Westminster edifice. The racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia & chauvinism we experience is an example of how it is toxic.

The guilt tripping that it’s somehow our fault for not voting Labour that lead the Tories to a win is a common “we lost.... yet again...” abuse strategy, & it highlights the shifty character of the people trying on that tactic... you need to up your ****ing game & have a socialist party worth voting for... i.e. one that is socialist to attract a socialist vote... if the party leadership really want socialists abroad & I don’t think they do.

It would be nice to pretend Labour represents socialist thought (let along intersectional discourse) but it doesn’t & it hasn’t for quite some time now — many young socialists are driven by these things & faced with far worse hostility than the kind shown here, many are leaving Labour.

That’s just how it is. If Labour really are socialist then let’s see them stand for something other than right of center Tory-lite ideas.
 
Why the hell should I divulge that kind of information to a complete stranger? I didn’t ask for your age. F’kn Weirdo.
 
claire.foxx said:
Good article on why socialists leave the Labour Party, It’s shifted so far to the right to accommodates an ever right-wing England that it can’t shift back without tearing itself apart; Time to build something brighter and more relevant for younger leftists and really work on local politics, local networking and local resilience rather than propping up some Westminster edifice. The racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and chauvinism expressed in the Labour Party faithful membership is toxic.

The guilt tripping that it’s somehow our fault for not voting Labour that lead the Tories to a win is a common “we lost.... yet again...” abuse strategy, and it reflects the shifty character of the people trying on that tactic... you need to up your ****ing game and have a socialist party worth voting for... i.e. one that is socialist enough to attract a socialist vote... if the party really want leftists abroad, & I don’t think they do.

It would be nice to pretend Labour represents socialist thought (let along intersectional discourse) but it doesn’t & it hasn’t for quite some time now — many young socialists are interested in these things & faced with the hostility shown here, many are leaving Labour & concentrating on community projects & outreach rather than the parliamentary clown circus of Westminster.
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Guilt tripping? abuse strategy?

Nobody is blaming anyone for not voting Labour, it’s about stopping the tories winning a majority. If you helped the tories win a majority by how you voted you are responsible for where we are.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
Yes just like two of the best PM's we never had.

BTW in these times of Covid I'm a little concerned for the health of tories so here's a simple test you can self administer; can you smell something rotten to the core? If no then ring BUPA immediately.
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There's no stench more rank than that of the hypocrisy of the working class loathing, fanatically pro-EU 'intellectual' left. Or I thought there wasn't.

How you deal with the manifold conflicts contained within your posture as a working class Marxist/socialist who wears his utter contempt for the people who form the constituencies of the old industrial heartlands proudly and loudly on his sleeve, who dreams of Benn and Corbyn yet is fanatically pro the unrepresentative, anti-democratic, elitist and overtly neoliberal EU that Benn and Corbyn hated, completely defeats me.

I suspect it defeats you too, so you just shout it all more loudly, probably the better not to hear your own voice. But then Marxism always was a creed that quickly turned nasty when its realities bit.
 
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eternumviti said:
The ones who voted for independence from the neoliberal EU, and for the restoration of law-making power to the people, the government and the institutions of the UK
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How is this for taking back control?

Unless you mean autocratic and not democratic control...

You keep (wrongly) accusing the EU of being undemocratic? How's this for democracy?


Brexit: Anger as ministers use obscure rule to deny MPs a vote on blocking chlorinated chicken imports

An obscure rule is to be used to deny MPs a crucial vote aimed at blocking imports of chlorinated chicken and hormone-fed beef, sparking fresh fears about food quality after Brexit.
Ministers are facing fierce criticism over their tactic to defeat an attempt to give powers to a new watchdog – amid suspicions that future trade deals, particularly with the US, will water down food and animal welfare standards.
The move to prevent debate on a key amendment expected to be backed by Tory rebels in a Commons showdown on Monday has been condemned as “unbelievable” by the peer who introduced it in the Lords.
The tactic was also attacked by the Conservative chair of the Commons environment committee, who told The Independent: “The Commons is wrongly being denied a say on a technicality.”
Neil Parish added: “The government should allow a vote. These are really important matters for the future of food and farming.”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ted-chicken-eu-mps-boris-johnson-b914047.html
 
eternumviti said:
But then Marxism always was a creed that quickly turned nasty when it's realities bit.
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That’s stateism for you. The cult of unfettered capitalism ain’t looking too good for the majority of people rn either.

best solution to the chlorinated chicken thing is to not buy chlorinated chicken; kill the market by non-participation. In fact try and not put bits of dead animal in your mouth at all challenge 2020-2021
 
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