The future of classical music

[TheDecameron]

Slightly random connection: been having a random play through a mobile Phantom of the Opera game (based on the book, fortunately). Having avoided ALW on purpose I hadn't previously noted that the story was based around the performance of Faust by Gounod. Odd point on that one to check with people who have read the book: a key point at the start of the game is that the opera house does not have an organ in it supposedly. However, when listening to the opera there is obviously a section in Act 4 (IIRC) when there is a very prominent organ section so I am not sure where that came from.

Anyway, the key point to bear in mind is that ALW had a story that was based around one of the great operas of all time and then decided to bin the existing music and write something else so is deserving, once again, of a slap.

The man never had an original musical thought in his life. The Puccini estate sued him for theft and he had to settle out of court.

 

[alanbeeb]

Its so depressing that every discussion of modern classical music almost immediately gets sent down into the rank, foul-smelling cul-de-sac of the post-war Avant-Garde because that's what everybody thinks modern classical music is, and that is its peculiar tragedy.

Actually there is absolutely tons of contemporary classical music that is worthwhile, approachable - but not Classic FM fodder, and its not film music either.
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/contemporary-music.242491/

 

[lordsummit]

Its so depressing that every discussion of modern classical music almost immediately gets sent down into the rank, foul-smelling cul-de-sac of the post-war Avant-Garde because that's what everybody thinks modern classical music is, and that is its peculiar tragedy.

Actually there is absolutely tons of contemporary classical music that is worthwhile, approachable - but not Classic FM fodder, and its not film music either.
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/contemporary-music.242491/

I’m not so sure it’s a cul-de-sac, more branches of a river. Without Stockhausen would we have had the Penderecki Threnody for instance? An extraordinary piece of music I’ve played three times. No it’s not easy listening, but I don’t think there’s another piece that so effectively conveys the horror man can create.

On the other hand I’m very fond of George Antheil, Ginastera and Dutilleux. These composers to me seem to have much more to do with the French tradition that begat Stravinsky, they’re much more approachable than many composers mentioned, there are sometimes even tunes, but they have a distinctly modern flair. I suspect when we look back at the twentieth century, it’ll be the works from that tradition that stand the test of time. Nadia Boulanger will be a key figure as historians look back at this period.

 

[alanbeeb]

Dutilleux is a particular favourite of mine. There are dozens of good recordings of his major works available... especially his cello concerto.

 

[PsB]

On the other hand I’m very fond of George Antheil, Ginastera and Dutilleux. These composers to me seem to have much more to do with the French tradition that begat Stravinsky, they’re much more approachable than many composers mentioned, there are sometimes even tunes, but they have a distinctly modern flair. I suspect when we look back at the twentieth century, it’ll be the works from that tradition that stand the test of time. Nadia Boulanger will be a key figure as historians look back at this period.

I thought Stravinsky was more a product of the Russian tradition - Rimsky-Korsakov in particular was a huge influence on him.
There's so much to listen to in 20th century music and so much variety that everybody should be able to find something to like. I like the three mentioned above, but struggle with Boulez, Maderna, Vivier and others. No worries, plenty of others to discover.

 

[droodzilla]

Ligeti?

 

[Cheese]

Ligeti?

Hungarian politics ?

 

[mandryka]

.[/QUOTE]
.

Its so depressing that every discussion of modern classical music almost immediately gets sent down into the rank, foul-smelling cul-de-sac of the post-war Avant-Garde because that's what everybody thinks modern classical music is, and that is its peculiar tragedy.

Actually there is absolutely tons of contemporary classical music that is worthwhile, approachable - but not Classic FM fodder, and its not film music either.
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/contemporary-music.242491/

Interesting to see Wolfgang Rihm on that list.

 

[windhoek]

Will we ever see a return to grand-scale symphonies that last anywhere between 45-90 minutes (or longer)? My favourite symphony that was composed closest to now of that sort was Shostakovich's 5th symphony. Apparently, Philip Glass has composed a number of lengthy symphonies but that's as much as I know.

 

[AndyU]

Will we ever see a return to grand-scale symphonies that last anywhere between 45-90 minutes (or longer)? My favourite symphony that was composed closest to now of that sort was Shostakovich's 5th symphony. Apparently, Philip Glass has composed a number of lengthy symphonies but that's as much as I know.

Weinberg’s Symphony No. 21 lasts over 50 minutes and was written in 1991. Gideon Kramers recording of it has just won Gramophone’s Recording of the Year.

 

[lordsummit]

I thought Stravinsky was more a product of the Russian tradition - Rimsky-Korsakov in particular was a huge influence on him.
There's so much to listen to in 20th century music and so much variety that everybody should be able to find something to like. I like the three mentioned above, but struggle with Boulez, Maderna, Vivier and others. No worries, plenty of others to discover.

He does show his Russian roots, Firebird is the peak of that, but he was a friend and contemporary of Boulanger, and the 1912 ballets were written for Diaghilev and the Paris Ballet. He was very much influenced by the French scene as well. He spent a large chunk of his life in France. He’s hard to pin down because he’s a musical magpie, but whilst he may have studied with Rimsky Korsakov, he was much more influenced by French artistic agitateurs.

 

[windhoek]

Speaking of Stravinsky, I used to work with a guy called Sebastian and it was his grandfather who conducted the very first performance of Firebird, although it may have been The Rite of Spring. It was definitely one of Stravinsky's eminent, ground-breaking works at any rate. Apparently, Sebastian grew in a household without recorded music as everybody in his family could plan an instrument to a very decent standard; he himself was/is a brass player. A really cool guy in all respects.

 

[alanbeeb]

Will we ever see a return to grand-scale symphonies that last anywhere between 45-90 minutes (or longer)? My favourite symphony that was composed closest to now of that sort was Shostakovich's 5th symphony. Apparently, Philip Glass has composed a number of lengthy symphonies but that's as much as I know.

There are many symphonies written in last 40-50 years including many by living composers. Some of them are mentioned in the thread I linked to. But lots more out there.

 

[davidjt]

I listen to R3 concerts a lot, and occasionally make an enjoyable discovery. Many start with a new piece commissioned by one of the BBC orchestras, which is no doubt a good thing. (My) trouble is I can't recall a single one which has made a lasting impression.
As for G&S and ALW, like or loathe them they can hardly be criticised for creating light entertainment - or at least not in a discussion about classical music imo.

 

[herb]

There are many symphonies written in last 40-50 years including many by living composers. Some of them are mentioned in the thread I linked to. But lots more out there.

Plenty of operas too. Rautavaara, Adams, Glass, Tippett, Ligeti, Birtwistle etc etc

 

[mandryka]

I certainly think ‘modern classical’ has more to do with say ECM New Series etc as it does with Boulez, Cage, Stockhausen, Henry etc. Tonal, measured, contemplative.

This is a new CD for me, I mean, I listened to it for the first time today. It made me think of the comment you made about tonal, measured, contemplative. (sorry -- I don't know how to get the picture smaller!) I think it's well worth a listen.

In the booklet he writes

Nocturnes & Lullabies reflects a continuing fascination with the piano as an instrument of resonance and an interactive meditative tool. It is a collection of pieces which interested me for the better part of the 2010’s, that all seemed tied to themes of nocturnal existence, soporific states, and the liminal states between light and dark, life and death, the conscious and unconscious self. At that time especially, I was focused on cultivating a sort of pianistic “anti-virtuosity” (at least in the conventional sense), performing music that seems simple on the surface but in actuality affords a great many challenges, both in execution and interpretation.

All but one of the works featured on this album are premiere recordings, and the composers are people to whom I have been connected and by whom I have been inspired for several years. In more than one instance, they are also personal friends and tireless advocates. After several years of recital presentations in various combinations, it is meaningful to present these works on this album: a document and format that is by no means definitive—either collectively or in part, conceptually or practically—but reflects a certain depth of care and understanding that comes from living with and thinking about these special pieces of music as intrinsically related for a prolonged period of time. The listening journey is an inverted arch-form, a descent into a lucid dream-state or waking reverie. These tableaux are excerpts from the continuum of consciousness—evoking profound existential questions, mundane meanderings, and poignant ephemeralities.

And a track by Linda Catlin Smith (a pupil of Feldman) here

 

[richardg]

How progressive has classical been versus say rock n roll, please?

 

[lordsummit]

How progressive has classical been versus say rock n roll, please?

Very

 

[Tony L]

Way more so IMO. Far too much rock n roll can be traced back to the same tired cliches and structures. Classical, like jazz, threw the rule book against the wall and started again in many different tangents. I’m not saying that hasn’t happened in the more extreme post-rock/electronica/metal genres, there is a lot of fresh thinking out there, but most of what sells sounds remarkably familiar and overused.

 

[richardg]

What about the instruments? It seems a bit constrained there? And what about putting string sections through a flanger, for example? I suppose it has been done but adding stuff like that does not spring to mind.