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Winter election II

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Poor old Corbyn had a roasting with Andrew Neil tonight. Comes across as a morally decent guy refusing to accept that the world isn’t like minded. If protecting our defence should be a priority for the govnt we’re stuffed.
 
gavreid said:
It really amounts to Jewish anti-semitism, including jews dismissing fellow jews as self-haters or discounting jewish, socialist views as being irrelevant. Most people wouldn't believe it possible I guess, which is why I feel that otherwise intelligent and questioning people cannot comprehend its existence.
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I thinks it’s got more to do with anti Corbyn labour members who see their positions on CLPs as a sinecure and are fighting against an influx of democracy
 
ks.234 said:
I thinks it’s got more to do with anti Corbyn labour members who see their positions on CLPs as a sinecure and are fighting against an influx of democracy
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I first witnessed it at University in the 80s - it's not a new thing by any means.
 
Seanm said:
Letter in the FT:

Economists and academics back Labour spending plans
https://www.ft.com/content/d29b4cbe-0fa4-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae

'Michael Jacobs, professor of political economy at Sheffield university, who co-ordinated the letter, said it had been surprisingly easy to find economists willing to sign. “The easiest thing for academic economists to do is sit on the fence,” he said, adding that “although academics generally do not go out on a limb, most had been willing to say that the UK faced a big choice and that enough of Labour’s programme accords with their own views”.'
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Well,he would say that, wouldn't he?
 
monya said:
Poor old Corbyn had a roasting with Andrew Neil tonight. Comes across as a morally decent guy refusing to accept that the world isn’t like minded. If protecting our defence should be a priority for the govnt we’re stuffed.
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Let’s see how Johnson gets on, I can’t see his bluster getting very far.
 
gavreid said:
It really amounts to Jewish anti-semitism, including jews dismissing fellow jews as self-haters or discounting jewish, socialist views as being irrelevant. Most people wouldn't believe it possible I guess, which is why I feel that otherwise intelligent and questioning people cannot comprehend its existence.
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It's not like there's ever any antagonism between different types of Christians, or different types of Muslims. I find it perfectly comprehensible.
 
Joe Hutch said:
Well, according to some here on pfm, Sturgeon's been slaughtered and Corbyn's been roasted. Will anyone's voting intentions have been changed?
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Well to be fair if feels as if we’ve got the worst set of party leaders in recent memory. Of the main four I’d probably put Sturgeon at the front, but only by a couple of lengths.
 
Sorry, couldn't resist a little light relief on Paint
49129300277_9b076090dc_m.jpg
 
matthewr said:
My point was to give my views on nature of the issue based on my impression gained from the wide discussion in the public space for several years and not to make a specific accusation. I was surprised that this was not clear from my post which is what I meant by obtuse.

FWW I also don't find it credible at this point that people are struggling to find complaints about and examples of AS in the labour party (even if they are all turn out to be without foundation).

What I meant by my post was two points:

1) The labour party appears to have an organisational and cultural problem with AS which is different than having the problem of, say, the Tory party which is one of having lots of actual racists.

2) Corbyn is, I think, an unremarkable individual without much in the way of obvious talents and the fact that this problem has persisted for so long is a reflection on his failure to deal with it. This has always been my problem with him rather than his politics and while you might think of it as a "moan" I think of it as a perfectly reasonable criticism of political leader.

I was also just expressing an honest and, I think, reasonable opinion and certainly not "wading in" or "throwing sh_t around".
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Declaring Labour to be institutionally antisemitic and discriminatory against Jews is a specific accusation. The fact that you think that making the accusation is no more significant than stating a reasonable opinion or making an impressionistic observation is what makes you a reckless sh_tposter, in this instance.

Sensible people throwing around these accusations as if they were remarking on the weather has consequences. It increases Jewish insecurity and it emboldens the far right. Two elderly pensioners beaten up yesterday while out canvassing for Labour. You've no idea how gratifying and enabling all this is to fascists.

It also makes the problem in the Labour Party almost impossible to deal with. Think about it. If you're interested in addressing the problem you have to understand that it involves convincing Corbyn-supporting members who consider themselves anti-racist that this isn't just a load of groundless accusations cooked up by people who don't like Corbyn. There is simply no getting around that stage. But everywhere you look there's people like you, throwing around accusations like confetti and using them as an opportunity to explain why Corbyn is awful.
 
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