advertisement


Nottingham Analogue Dais vs. TW Acoustics Raven One?

Using the entirely objective functional shebot scale:-

Brinkman LaGrange 17.23 Shebots
Raven AC 14.27 Shebots
NA Dais 14.27 Shebots
Garrard 401 14.27 Shebots
SME 20 12.72 Shebots
LP12 8.47 Shebots

The utterly objective Shebot scale combines all elements of vinyl replay. As you can see - although they may differ in one area of presentation, overall they have an identical score. Thus the heated debates.

The Shebot scale is very useful. If you have any other arguments about the relative merits of turntables, I can look them up for you.
 
JR, if I can pull off my DIY tonearm, which will basically be a ripoff of the WTA design except even uglier and more Heath Robinson, how many Shebots will this subtract from my Land Of The Giants plinthed 401?:cool:

As long as it's still definitively better than an LP12 I'll be OK.:p
 
Steve

Shebots are a measurement of deck/PS base. Even with the LP12 a nominal optimal motor solutions is assumed, and in the case of the 401 plinth and PS also. In all cases each deck is assumed to have a nominal optimal arm and cart. The equivalent measurement for comparing arms is the Trilabob.

Specific measurements for Trilabob is not available, but an experiment can be set up.

Obviously such an objective set of measurements is beyond the capacity of human science at this time, and is extraterrestrial in origin.

If you would like a combination the 401/WTA can be compared against, I can set up a message using the quantum states of electrons requesting the experiment be carried out.

The entities who carry out this test are far superior to us in intellect and technology - but still regard the LP records as the most pleasing method of recorded musical reproduction.
 
INTERMISSION:

Tweeds and loafers everywhere as Lucky Strikes smolder and dance to Twist and Shout full tilt through browned Tannoys.

INTERMISSION ENDS:
 
The trouble with the 'Shebot' as a unit of measurement, is that the measurement methodology has an in-built bias towards over-engineered German turntables.

This results in an EMT927 attracting a rating of 99.73 Shebots, when in practice it is only about twice as good as any 'normal' turntable.
 
Yes, it's these non linear scales they insist on using. Our minds which can only just cope with 3 dimensions can't envisage the 4 dimensional logarithmic scales with a base of a hergwrangle, which is a non rational number defined as the cube root of the maximium distance in km you'd be prepared to walk home after a party if you were on a promise and you had no money for a taxi. The extraterrestrial beings JR talks about have defined the hergwrangle to over 20,000 dp for every possibility of weather, how pissed you are and how hot your promise is, which gives you an idea of their computational power. Apparently they are even working on making sense of some of Mick Parry's postings in the OT room, though progress in this area is slow.;)
 
Basil said:
I need a box of tissues, STAT!

Markus, you own that? If so colour me jealous!

Only a minor point, I wonder how happy that Skala is perched on the tip of that Aro?
Click to expand...

I don't own it, but I intend to own something not too dissimilar soon(ish). With a different arm probably, possibly an Alphason HR100.

That particular Skala is fairly recent production. The owner thinks it is even better than previous Skalas she has enjoyed. It certainly seems to enjoy its stay in the Aro. The combo works very well.

This is a 401 in a 501 plinth, painstakingly built by Martina Schoener with some goodies from Franck Tchang. It sounds like no 401 you've ever heard, partly due to the power supply (which you can't see in the picture).

I have shown this picture here as a reminder that given enough dedication, time and effort, a talented person can create a great sounding product, and it doesn't seem to matter all that much what technology is the starting point.
 
I am still waiting to hear the AC and keep an open mind. I hope it sounds better than the Raven 1. I heard it at a show a few years back with a jelco arm and frankly the sound was very poor. I expected great things but there was just no detail or solidity of the sound. A Funk left it for dead.
 
Jek said:
I am still waiting to hear the AC and keep an open mind. I hope it sounds better than the Raven 1. I heard it at a show a few years back with a jelco arm and frankly the sound was very poor. I expected great things but there was just no detail or solidity of the sound. A Funk left it for dead.
Click to expand...

Completely ridiculous post – how could you determine it was the turntable that was not to your liking when there are so many other variables in the room i.e. amplification, speakers plus the room acoustics which are always poor in these wall boarded hotel rooms.

I am sure there are a few Raven-one owners on this forum that would disagree with your comments regarding lack of detail and solidity of sound.
 
Speed stability was not fantastic and that can clearly be determined despite all the issues you mention. Its not the only aspect though for sure its not an ideal situation. All the other rooms had poor acoustics too.

Its a few years ago but I seem to recall the speakers were Avantgarde with which I was already familiar. I heard the avantgardes before at an even more limited room at Walrus but with a better deck they still really sang despite serious room issues. They are definitely not flat or lacking in detail and being directional should have an advantage against less directional speakers in that kind of environment. I cant remember what the cartridge was exactly (lyra or ortofon if I was pushed - some well known brand anyway) but I was familiar with it also and would feel confident it was not the cause of the issue. I don't think I took a look at the amps but I will assume they were competent.

I hope for better from the AC when I finally get to hear it.
 
Jek, I can only agree with you about how good Avantgarde horns are, given a big enough room/wallet (sadly I have neither but like to dream). However, I seriously cannot imagine how you can criticise the speed stability of a Raven One. Both the Raven One and AC are excellent turntables, especially with regard to speed stability. The Raven motors are extremely high torque and are quartz referenced. Even the belts are ground to so and so many microns thickness tolerance, and the platter weight is impressive even on my 'baby' Raven. If you thought you heard speed issues, I'd be more likely to think the record was warped…

I bought a R1 (I couldn't stretch to the AC), but I have heard many decks and would say that in terms of crispness, punch and musicality, the Ravens are among the best. I did a back-to-back in my system with an LP12 and there was no contest in terms of detail, timing, imaging etc. OK, the Jelco arm isn't going to set the world alight compared to your Graham Phantoms, the TW Acustic arm, SMEs etc, but it's a competent enough arm. I haven't seen the need to change mine though, which I'm running with a ZYX R50. I have heard the AC and it is a mightily impressive TT. It did sound better than the R1, but then again it had a better arm and cart (I heard it with the TW arm (not sure which cart) and the Phantom with a Dynavector XV1S, cf my Jelco/ZYX). With these arms and carts, there was better imaging and detail, but I still thought that the R1 with the Jelco arm sounded very good indeed, though I admit it can't quite compare with a TT/arm/cart combination costing 3x as much!

I think shows are generally a terrible environment to assess kit in anyway, what with the dirty mains, noise from nearby rooms, wobbly ceiling tiles and everything else. Was the Funk being demmed with the same kit in the same room? If not, the comparison is of limited use. Or even DeFunkt (SCNR!)
 
I just felt it wasn't that punchy or dynamic and the timing wasn't great. I will agree it is better than an LP12 though. I felt for a deck of that price I would expect it to sound a bit more precise and metronomic - something I would associate with better than average speed stability. It just sounded a bit average to me. I would certainly give it another try if the opportunity arose and I still want to listen to the AC. I don't think there was a speed issue in the sense that you would get from a warped record. Its more the sense that a turntable with better W&F measurements often sounds more solid and precise and the baby raven seemed to lack this. I have no axe to grind I wanted to like it as I was interested in purchasing the AC model if it was better than what I already have.

I have heard the funk many times and just think it is a great deck. I don't own one.
 
Current one looks a little different:-

3515501117_d248d4de55_z.jpg


That's with the 12" space arm, which is still current although a better arm is available.

Some assembly required...

3275302368_7935ff1515_z.jpg


Nice deck. Bloody heavy. Note the screw on handles so you can pick the platter up.
 
G T Audio said:
Completely ridiculous post – how could you determine it was the turntable that was not to your liking when there are so many other variables in the room i.e. amplification, speakers plus the room acoustics which are always poor in these wall boarded hotel rooms.
Click to expand...


Hifi shows are a great entertainment medium, but not so good for listening to music.

They're an absolute no-no, however, for evaluating the merits/demerits of individual pieces of kit.

Must have been a black hole of an auditorium for a Raven not to stand out.:)
 
Jonathan Ribee said:
Some assembly required...

3275302368_7935ff1515_z.jpg


Nice deck. Bloody heavy. Note the screw on handles so you can pick the platter up.
Click to expand...

Nope ! Would like to, but eyes are letting me down here. Is the Dais platter really THAT heavy?

Oddly, the Dais seems as though it's all platter and little base, where the A C is, visually at least, more balanced with a seemingly more substantial base.

Nice piccy of the DIY aspect, Jonathan.
 
Some assembly pictures...

3274664867_f17984cc9f_z.jpg


3275301450_672b7afd72_z.jpg


Platter - spun cast iron, about 20Kg IIRC.

3275488882_d4ea893ca3_z.jpg


3275489696_c2c300e9da_z.jpg


3274704685_6dcec09922_z.jpg


3275492056_ff7f4ea0db_z.jpg


3292738593_3dd0135426_z.jpg


For quite a big heavy deck, it sort of blends into the background...

4899085741_15ef482eef_z.jpg
 
Dig that whole shebang Jonathan. The wine glass in pic 1 suggests the period between pic one and pic 8 was roughly a "duration", or possibly a "long haul".

Either way, pic 8 is snazzy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top