Why is a streamer better than a desktop/laptop running e.g. iTunes?

[adamdea]

I've never had a streamer and I can't see what the benefit of a dedicated box is over a desktop/laptop, which in my case is a Mac desktop running iTunes. I use it for YouTube and occasionally dropping in on Spotify. Very convenient since all my other source material (TV, Internet, Archived CDs) is also on the Mac. Everything in one place.

So with a streamer how does it work? You have a remote control presumably? But surely that's a lot more clunky than a full computer screen with a mouse and keyboard?

Educate me here.....

There are dozens of ways of getting digital files to a hifi. The decision should be based around use case, functionality and user interface. Personally -when at home-I want to be able to control the music and choose what to play from the sofa, and I don't want to be limited to a proprietary solution nor do i wish to have to run a cable from the sofa. I also want to be able to play the music in a variety of rooms in the house. But that still leaves lots of ways of doing it. In any event, I'm not going to sit with a desktop computer on my lap. On the other hand when I am in my office, I sit in front of a desktop computer which I use to play music. And on the third hand when I am running or riding a bicycle I play music from my watch.
There you have it.

 

[Heckyman]

I've done indirect/ad hoc comparisons, I've settled on a Macmini M2 and I'm very happy with my choice (well, I may get the M3 when it comes out, haha). Excellent sound at a decent price and even the on board DAC/line out is useable at a pinch.

Adding a better PSU lifts it another level too. A while back I started a dedicated thread about it here if anyone is interested.

 

[John]

This is fine for listening to audio only, sync can be an issue if watching video.

I just pulled up YouTube on my iPad and using Airplay 2 sent the audio to my Sonos Amp hooked up to my DMT-15’s. The audio perfectly matched the couple of videos I viewed, one of which was a pickleball game where you can see and hear the pop of the ball off the paddle.

 

[garyi]

Thats great, not everyone will have the same experience depending on latency on the network, what they are air playing to etc. Frankly all bets are off. I cannot say I use airplay or chromecast or anything else. If I want to watch youtube it tends to be on the TV through a streamer.

 

[Hcanning]

For a while I used a small PC to stream music to my main system. It was a pain in the arse. How do I control it? Oh I can use Spotify Connect on my phone to control the Spotify app on the PC. Oh bugger, Spotify on the PC has closed because the system rebooted. Sigh, I'll dig out the the keyboard and mouse. Never mind, I'll play something from my collection of FLACs on my NAS. How do I control this remotely again? Oh goody, I'm being pestered about another Windows Update. Sigh, Windows has inexplicably set the bit depth and sampling rate of the sound card back to 24/96. Nevermind, I'll install ASIO4ALL. Sorted. Oh, nope, now that's stopped working for a completely unfathomable reason.

Yeah. Not fun.

I absolutely love my Wiim Pro. If I want to listen to Spotify, I choose it in the Spotify app on my phone. I I want to listen to music from my NAS, I'll fire up the PlexAmp app and set it to cast to the Wiim. If I want to listen from some other random app on my phone, I'll use Airplay. Lovely.

Obviously if you do the bulk of your music listening while actually sat at a desk using a computer then fine. But if you don't, then there are far more appropriate solutions.

 

[Alex S]

I’m sat on the sofa and that’s my desk. It’s really not painful.

 

[Jubal]

I am sure this thread won’t change any minds. I for one can’t understand anyone who’d rather stream from a computer. It’s a nonsense in today‘s tech. But, if it’s what you know and like then who am I to influence? WiiM all the way here. But then I like my phone as an interface.

 

[AndyU]

I am sure this thread won’t change any minds. I for one can’t understand anyone who’d rather stream from a computer. It’s a nonsense in today‘s tech. But, if it’s what you know and like then who am I to influence? WiiM all the way here. But then I like my phone as an interface.

Your phone (or tablet) can also be an interface to music software running on a computer. That computer can be connected directly to your hifi, or be a server to any number of endpoints of which a Wiim might be one, a Sonos might be another, a Raspberry Pi might be another, your TV might be another. You A lot depends on what software you like to run. So it’s not at all nonsense to base your system around some kind of computer.

 

[Jubal]

Your phone (or tablet) can also be an interface to music software running on a computer. That computer can be connected directly to your hifi, or be a server to any number of endpoints of which a Wiim might be one, a Sonos might be another, a Raspberry Pi might be another, your TV might be another. You A lot depends on what software you like to run. So it’s not at all nonsense to base your system around some kind of computer.

Like I said, not changing any minds. Clearly. But what else is a streamer than a dedicated computer? Just more slick, nicer to use IMHO, etc. The key selling point of the WiiM to me is that it’s reasonable to buy, supports all the services I like and that the phone is a controller, not in the audio stream.

 

[irb]

I find a PC as source is convenient, playing files that I've either downloaded or ripped from my own discs.

There seem to be lots of people who think that such a setup must be sonically compromised, and who advocate the audible superiority of streaming (which I've always understood to mean playing music over a network, whether the files are stored locally or remotely). A few years ago, having read such opinions online ad nauseam, I tried out a couple of streaming solutions, still just using my local files (rather than a streaming service). I had a microrendu for a while, and later an Allo product - couldn't tell you which one now. I even gave in to the paranoia and tried fancy power supplies/cables with the microrendu. Frankly I found the whole thing a huge faff. And I failed to detect any sonic benefit whatsoever.

I ended up building myself a new, totally silent PC, with a nice big SSD, and went back to playing music direct from the PC to the hifi via USB (with bog standard cables etc). Sounds great. Never looked back.

 

[adamdea]

Like I said, not changing any minds. Clearly. But what else is a streamer than a dedicated computer? Just more slick, nicer to use IMHO, etc. The key selling point of the WiiM to me is that it’s reasonable to buy, supports all the services I like and that the phone is a controller, not in the audio stream.

I find a PC as source is convenient, playing files that I've either downloaded or ripped from my own discs.

There seem to be lots of people who think that such a setup must be sonically compromised, and who advocate the audible superiority of streaming (which I've always understood to mean playing music over a network, whether the files are stored locally or remotely). A few years ago, having read such opinions online ad nauseam, I tried out a couple of streaming solutions, still just using my local files (rather than a streaming service). I had a microrendu for a while, and later an Allo product - couldn't tell you which one now. I even gave in to the paranoia and tried fancy power supplies/cables with the microrendu. Frankly I found the whole thing a huge faff. And I failed to detect any sonic benefit whatsoever.

I ended up building myself a new, totally silent PC, with a nice big SSD, and went back to playing music direct from the PC to the hifi via USB (with bog standard cables etc). Sounds great. Never looked back.

Nothing wrong with any of this. It just depends how you want to do things. But for me (and many others) a lot of the point of digital audio is to let go of the hifi mindset (ie this is a device used with this stereo in this place). I want to be able to play music throughout the house. And for that purpose it makes sense to have a number of cheap single purpose computers which can plug in at different locations, with the files on a nas tucked away in the basement and the server software on a pi, all of which can be controlled by a phone, tablet, laptop or PC on the network.

 

[TheFlash]

Not a response to the immediately preceding post:
I think we all know that when people speak of “computer” in a conversation like this they mean general purpose computer like a laptop or desktop. We’re all aware that our mobile phone, tablet, TV, streamer, perhaps watch, perhaps fridge, probably car … all have a computer at the heart of what they do. Reminding people of this may be unnecessary.

 

[CageyH]

I stream from a (Silent) PC. This is hidden behind my TV.
I use USB out with a Matrix USB card. The PC was built out of old parts left over from various builds.
The Matrix USB card was picked up 2nd Hand.
I can stream from LMS, using my tablet as the interface using iPeng, or using a wireless keyboard with touchpad, using the TV as my screen.

It boots up quickly, and has never reset audio settings. It sounds very similar to CD when playing backed field ripped from a CD, and is also happy streaming from whatever service you like.

Why would I want to get a streamer?

 

[Bronzeage]

I stream from a (Silent) PC. This is hidden behind my TV.
I use USB out with a Matrix USB card. The PC was built out of old parts left over from various builds.
The Matrix USB card was picked up 2nd Hand.
I can stream from LMS, using my tablet as the interface using iPeng, or using a wireless keyboard with touchpad, using the TV as my screen.

It boots up quickly, and has never reset audio settings. It sounds very similar to CD when playing backed field ripped from a CD, and is also happy streaming from whatever service you like.

Why would I want to get a streamer?

Because you don’t happen to have a silent PC and a bunch of spare parts lying around?

Seriously, if you already have a PC/Mac or whatever, and you are happy with it, fine, but if somebody wants to use a streamer instead, what is the big deal? Everybody is free to choose what suits them.

 

[gez]

When it comes to YouTube, I use my TV as the source. Optical connection straight in to the DAC in my amplifier. It has a touch more treble "sheen" compared to Deezer/Amazon Music via my WiiM. But that's as likely to be because it's not the same source material as anything else. When I watch Drum tuition or product review video's the cymbals sound very good, so I'm leaning towards it being the mastering/eq of the music videos causing the ever so slight brightness in the treble.

I have to say for a compressed 256kb/s audio stream the OPUS CODEC does a very good job.

 

[garyi]

I find a PC as source is convenient, playing files that I've either downloaded or ripped from my own discs.

There seem to be lots of people who think that such a setup must be sonically compromised, and who advocate the audible superiority of streaming (which I've always understood to mean playing music over a network, whether the files are stored locally or remotely). A few years ago, having read such opinions online ad nauseam, I tried out a couple of streaming solutions, still just using my local files (rather than a streaming service). I had a microrendu for a while, and later an Allo product - couldn't tell you which one now. I even gave in to the paranoia and tried fancy power supplies/cables with the microrendu. Frankly I found the whole thing a huge faff. And I failed to detect any sonic benefit whatsoever.

I ended up building myself a new, totally silent PC, with a nice big SSD, and went back to playing music direct from the PC to the hifi via USB (with bog standard cables etc). Sounds great. Never looked back.

In principle I do the same, however mine is explicitly a Streamer. i.e. there is no connection between me and it, no screen, keyboard, mouse, vnc or anything. It runs dedicated streaming software (roon) and if I want to add new music its via tidal or I drag files to a network location for it to scan.

I think the nomenclature may confuse people here. Streaming does not have to mean a steaming service. You may stream music files from your own to server to your hifi. Its just the method of playing music from one location at another location.

 

[irb]

I think the nomenclature may confuse people here. Streaming does not have to mean a steaming service. You may stream music files from your own to server to your hifi. Its just the method of playing music from one location at another location.

@garyi Sorry, not sure if you're criticising my nomenclature? If so, you must have missed the definition I gave above, which I thought was decent and hopefully helpful:
"... streaming (which I've always understood to mean playing music over a network, whether the files are stored locally or remotely)... "

 

[karlsushi]

I've gone from laptops (running windows) to dedicated streamers in both of my systems in the last year or so (all using an external DAC).

As with a lot of 'upgrades' in audio, the benefits of a streamer are more pronounced in my bigger room system when playing music at higher volumes. Whilst I can still pick out the improvements in my smaller near-field system (which never gets 'pushed'), the differences are smaller.

I suspect how hard a system is being pushed is one of the main reasons some people hear more of a difference than others (and vice-versa).

I still miss the flexibility and bigger screen when using a laptop as a source, but the improvements in sound quality have been worth it for me, such that I will only be using a dedicated audio streamer moving forwards.

To my ears, the main audible benefits of a decent streamer are a more analogue and lifelike presentation, with less 'strain'. The most obvious difference is a reduction in treble brightness, especially at higher volumes.

To answer the OP question directly, the benefits of a dedicated streamer vs a pc largely relate to better (low noise) power supplies, less interference from non-audio-related digital processing and higher quality clocks.

 

[Fourlegs]

@garyi Sorry, not sure if you're criticising my nomenclature? If so, you must have missed the definition I gave above, which I thought was decent and hopefully helpful:
"... streaming (which I've always understood to mean playing music over a network, whether the files are stored locally or remotely)... "

Just on this, I mostly play locally stored files from the disk within my streamer. Whilst my network is required in order to issue commands to the streamer from an app on my phone or iPad, it might be being pedantic but the actual music is not played over the network.

 

[irb]

... I suspect how hard a system is being pushed is one of the main reasons some people hear more of a difference than others (and vice-versa).
...
To answer the OP question directly, the benefits of a dedicated streamer vs a pc largely relate to better (low noise) power supplies, less interference from non-audio-related digital processing and higher quality clocks.

With all due respect, you're speculating.

When ASR tested the microrendu, for example, they found no measurable benefit of the type you suggest. In fact it made noise/jitter worse, in some situations. See: here