Why is a streamer better than a desktop/laptop running e.g. iTunes?

[les24preludes]

I've never had a streamer and I can't see what the benefit of a dedicated box is over a desktop/laptop, which in my case is a Mac desktop running iTunes. I use it for YouTube and occasionally dropping in on Spotify. Very convenient since all my other source material (TV, Internet, Archived CDs) is also on the Mac. Everything in one place.

So with a streamer how does it work? You have a remote control presumably? But surely that's a lot more clunky than a full computer screen with a mouse and keyboard?

Educate me here.....

 

[foxwelljsly]

All desktop windows PCs I've used create crazy earth loop buzzes when connected to my stereo via USB. So I use a streamer.

Macs are quieter, but getting them to output audio at native bitrates is PITA and not something the software they come with will do without a lot of faffing.

My little Moode Pi Streamer, is an endpoint for airplay and spotify, has a gazillion internet radio stations, will play all the music on my NAS at native bitrates and I can access it all, including volume, from a browser on my phone or tablet, so my stereo can be hidden away in a different room to my speakers. It cost about £50 and a bit of tweaking.

Kodi, which I use in the living room, does all the same, except it does video too and will automate the loading of subtitles and allow you to adjust dialogue volume on the fly. About £50, again.

 

[les24preludes]

All desktop windows PCs I've used create crazy earth loop buzzes when connected to my stereo via USB. So I use a streamer. Macs are quieter, but getting them to output audio at native bitrates is PITA and not something the software they come with will do without a lot of faffing. My little Moode Pi Streamer, is an endpoint for airplay and spotify, has a gazillion internet radio stations, will play all the music on my NAS at native bitrates and I can access it all, including volume, from a browser on my phone or tablet.

So the interface is usually a phone or tablet?

 

[kensalriser]

I use a Pi supplied by various music sources (Mac, PC laptop, Naim HDX) via LMS. Sounds fine, works fine mostly except when the wifi is playing up. Any computer (or smartphone, I guess) can be used as the interface.

 

[tuga]

I've never had a streamer and I can't see what the benefit of a dedicated box is over a desktop/laptop, which in my case is a Mac desktop running iTunes. I use it for YouTube and occasionally dropping in on Spotify. Very convenient since all my other source material (TV, Internet, Archived CDs) is also on the Mac. Everything in one place.

So with a streamer how does it work? You have a remote control presumably? But surely that's a lot more clunky than a full computer screen with a mouse and keyboard?

Educate me here.....

iTunes/Music doesn't change the sample rate automatically to match the file.

This is easily solved with a $10 add-on called Bit Perfect:

What is BitPerfect?

BitPerfect is an App that runs alongside iTunes and provides capabilities to improve its playback of high quality audio files. When you use...

bitperfectsound.blogspot.com

 

[tuga]

So the interface is usually a phone or tablet?

You can use your smartphone or tablet to control iTunes in a Mac.
I prefer to use a MacBook to control my Mac mini because of the larger screen.

Apple Screen Sharing - the joys of running a Mac headless

A recent change of DAC has prompted a massive revolution in my file-playback system. I was using wireless and was streaming locally from a NAS positioned elsewhere in the house to avoid the mechanical noise, but the new DAC accepts DSD256 and that was too much for the wireless which relies on a...

pinkfishmedia.net

 

[bec143]

Back when I looked at this quite a bit, a Squeezebox/DAC was substantially better then MacBook.
But now they are unsupported. But I woudl use a decently implements streamer rather than trying to get by with the laptop. You don't have to spend tons on a fancy Linn/Naim approach, they sound good but these expensive all in one things are prone to obsolescence IMO.

 

[gez]

So the interface is usually a phone or tablet?

As far as I understand it, some streamers have screens and a fairly normal remote, so are used in a similar way to a CD player etc. As in the screen shows you what's being played or allows you to select what to play, all done via the remote.

At least that's the impression some products have given me, but I may have been misinterpreting them.

I have a WiiM Mini, which is controlled via a WiiM app on my tablet. From there I select the streaming service I want to use and go from there. It's pretty easy really.

 

[BrendanD]

It’s all about working out what sounds best on your system. A streamer is only needed if you want to keep the computer away from the hi fi, either because it introduces electrical HF noise from its switch mode power supply (macs are much better generally than PCs in this respect) or for domestic reasons.
switching from iTunes to a dedicated player such as Audirvāna will have much better quality sound.
a slight gain can be found by using a streamer as an endpoint rather than a usb connection, but it’s often slight.

 

[les24preludes]

switching from iTunes to a dedicated player such as Audirvāna will have much better quality sound.
a slight gain can be found by using a streamer as an endpoint rather than a usb connection, but it’s often slight.

I have Audirvana and I can't remember why I stopped using it - maybe it was clunky or slowed down the computer. The difference against iTunes was subtle, not night and day.

 

[BrendanD]

I have Audirvana and I can't remember why I stopped using it - maybe it was clunky or slowed down the computer. The difference against iTunes was subtle, not night and day.

What is the rest of your system?

 

[les24preludes]

What is the rest of your system?

My system is a Mac Pro computer which acts as sole source for archived CDs, TV Internet etc, and which is connected by USB to my AK4490 Dac. The Dac directly feeds a high quality Single Ended tube amp into Mission 761 speakers. Volume control is in software

 

[tuga]

I have Audirvana and I can't remember why I stopped using it - maybe it was clunky or slowed down the computer. The difference against iTunes was subtle, not night and day.

You will get a substantial improvement over iTunes if you upsample. I prefer HQPlayer but some people upsample with Audirvana or Roon.

Few if any dedicated streamers have as much power as an M1/M2 Mac, and power is essential if you wish to upsample and/or apply EQ/DRC.

 

[BrendanD]

Ah. I can’t comment really then. On all the DACs I’ve used (various Naim, Devialet, usb plug in ones like the dragonfly Audirvāna made a big difference. upsampling can help A lot on the simpler dacs like the meridian usb one.

 

[tuga]

My system is a Mac Pro computer which acts as sole source for archived CDs, TV Internet etc, and which is connected by USB to my AK4490 Dac. The Dac directly feeds a high quality Single Ended tube amp into Mission 761 speakers. Volume control is in software

Mac OS volume control is lossy, as is iTunes' or YouTube's. You'd do better by adding a passive attenuator (or a preamp) to your chain.

 

[Adam D]

It’s all about working out what sounds best on your system. A streamer is only needed if you want to keep the computer away from the hi fi, either because it introduces electrical HF noise from its switch mode power supply (macs are much better generally than PCs in this respect) or for domestic reasons.
switching from iTunes to a dedicated player such as Audirvāna will have much better quality sound.
a slight gain can be found by using a streamer as an endpoint rather than a usb connection, but it’s often slight.

So, would a simple test to see if HF noise is being added into your DAC/amp would be to listen to it with and without the power supply connected to your mac/PC/laptop?

 

[tuga]

It’s all about working out what sounds best on your system. A streamer is only needed if you want to keep the computer away from the hi fi, either because it introduces electrical HF noise from its switch mode power supply (macs are much better generally than PCs in this respect) or for domestic reasons.
switching from iTunes to a dedicated player such as Audirvāna will have much better quality sound.
a slight gain can be found by using a streamer as an endpoint rather than a usb connection, but it’s often slight.

That may or may not be true depending on the models in question, as per measurements below:

MEASUREMENTS: Computer USB +5V Power Noise by Raoul Trifan & MQA's Bob Stuart Speaks Again...

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

So, would a simple test to see if HF noise is being added into your DAC/amp would be to listen to it with and without the power supply connected to your mac/PC/laptop?

The noise is UHF and thus inaudible.
The effects of the noise may be audible if you know how to identify them and/or if you are able to perform a comparitive evaluation with and without the noise.

 

[Adam D]

Wiim Pro streamers seem to come up fairly regularly on Ebay.

I may buy one on there and try it out in my headphone/laptop system.

If it works I'll keep it, but if it doesn't then I will sell it on.

I tried a couple of Ifi products, the iPurifier and iNano galvanic, and they didn't change the sound really.

 

[Heckyman]

Yes, "streamers" are usually controlled by phone or tablet via the manufacturer's app. Stick with the Mac if you like the usability. You'd struggle to play YouTube directly on a streamer.

 

[les24preludes]

Mac OS volume control is lossy, as is iTunes' or YouTube's. You'd do better by adding a passive attenuator (or a preamp) to your chain.

My system is configured so that the usual listening level is just a bit under maximum, like 70% to 90% depending. So there's very little attenuation needed. This is how I like it because I really don't want the faff of a separate volume control, and certainly not a preamp which would be extra gain and degradation of the signal which I don't want or need in any way.

I know what you mean, and I've heard this stated numerous times. Volume in software may be lossy in theory, but frankly I can't hear any difference in the sound at different volume settings. The sound is even good at minimum volume which I use for going to sleep with a suitably chill playlist. If there were degradation I think would hear it because I have a very high resolution system, but I can't say I notice any significant difference.