The emissions are almost certainly solvable these days if a company of a reasonable size wanted to do it. In the 90s the Australian company Orbital was pushing two stroke car engines sufficiently effectively that the main car companies felt the need to cover it. For example, Ford had 3 cylinder Fiestas whizzing about and confusing the public with strange noises. Chatting to one of the engineers involved at the time he said the project was going well but it was a bit disheartening that it was a defensive project and Ford wouldn't do anything with it unless they felt forced into it. Far better to stick with current technology that they know inside out and back to front while concentrating on what actually sells cars. I was offered a drive but couldn't fit it in. Wish I had made a bit more of an effort now.
Time for a motorbike list
- Thread starter Rasher
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I've always reversed into parking spaces regardless of weight of bike...quicker getaways when all the alarms start going off!!
Not quite the same as rat bike 250 two strokes with tuned engines, restricted locks, steering dampers, standard exhausts that have been cut open, restrictive bits removed and welded up again. They looked scruffy and standard but went like sh*t off a shovel. Great fun. But you couldn't really do it these days with the high density of cars and cameras everywhere. Then again would we want to given the cost in lives and serious injury that was accepted in those days? Perhaps Sunday afternoons on comfy, sedate, clean, polished bikes is the way to go for us crumblies.
-alan-
pfm Member
I dunno - I suspect most of us from that era have more than a little of the rose-tinted contacts syndrome.
A case in point - a friend of mine bought a rebuilt/restored GT380 last year. When the rest of us were hammering around on L plates on what we thought were blisteringly fast 250 stokers - the 400 class bikes were deemed as a kind of Holy grail. Faster than any 250, capable of cracking the ton with ease, teenage biking nirvana. After handing over (far too much) cash, riding the thing home, he took it sedately for the first 20 miles, and then wound it on properly. According to him, he crawled to about 85mph - gathering speed slowly rather than accelerating - and then wound it back, suspecting a poor engine rebuild, or something else majorly wrong. After arriving home, he parked the bike in the garage disgusted, then went in and pulled out the old road-tests to see just how bad his example was. A 1973 issue of Cycle World threw up a figure of 38bhp & a blistering 28ftlb of torque. His ZZR 1400, sitting beside it on the garage makes 155Kw/165Nm: leaving aside the small change in the conversion somewhere around 3-4(?) times the power. The penny dropped. They were relatively quick - but compared to their offspring 30-40 years later, they're definitely a lot more 'gentlemanly' than the mad blistering things we once thought they were
A case in point - a friend of mine bought a rebuilt/restored GT380 last year. When the rest of us were hammering around on L plates on what we thought were blisteringly fast 250 stokers - the 400 class bikes were deemed as a kind of Holy grail. Faster than any 250, capable of cracking the ton with ease, teenage biking nirvana. After handing over (far too much) cash, riding the thing home, he took it sedately for the first 20 miles, and then wound it on properly. According to him, he crawled to about 85mph - gathering speed slowly rather than accelerating - and then wound it back, suspecting a poor engine rebuild, or something else majorly wrong. After arriving home, he parked the bike in the garage disgusted, then went in and pulled out the old road-tests to see just how bad his example was. A 1973 issue of Cycle World threw up a figure of 38bhp & a blistering 28ftlb of torque. His ZZR 1400, sitting beside it on the garage makes 155Kw/165Nm: leaving aside the small change in the conversion somewhere around 3-4(?) times the power. The penny dropped. They were relatively quick - but compared to their offspring 30-40 years later, they're definitely a lot more 'gentlemanly' than the mad blistering things we once thought they were
Flat on the tank in leathers 38bhp should get you to 100mph. Sitting up in a billowing jacket no chance.
The RD250LC in standard form was around 35bhp and could just about get to 100mph flat in leathers. A properly tuned proddy standard bike (exhaust was supposed to be stock but often wasn't, carbs stock but jetting changed, engine internals heavily modified,...) could raise the power towards 50bhp but at the price of a narrower powerband and higher fuel consumption. The bikes weren't usually geared for top speed except at places like Silverstone which club racing rarely visited. There were claims of 120 mph but I'm rather doubtful but over 110mph is reasonable. Form drag scales with velocity cubed which, if my maths OK, is around 112mph based on the power ratio. Of course what gets the top speed of later road going 250s up to 130mph from not much more than 50bhp is mainly the fairing.
If the front wheel is close to lifting under acceleration then that is around the limit for quickness. At road legal speeds the 250s were quick enough and because they were agile and light could be hussled around windy roads quicker than heavier slower steering but more powerful bikes. Of course on dual carriageways and motorways the more powerful bikes could go much faster but where is the fun in that? The bike I would have fancied most at the time would have been a road going MBA 125 twin had there been such a thing.His ZZR 1400, sitting beside it on the garage makes 155Kw/165Nm: leaving aside the small change in the conversion somewhere around 3-4(?) times the power. The penny dropped. They were relatively quick - but compared to their offspring 30-40 years later, they're definitely a lot more 'gentlemanly' than the mad blistering things we once thought they were
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
They were blisteringly fast! Especially tuned ones. As fast in a straight line as 500cc + four strokes and faster than them on 0-60 often. Combine this with the low mass and "flickability" and bobs yer uncle... They would still beat most "GTI" type cars from 0-60 today @ 6 seconds or so.
The GT380 was always a slow old dog and more of a touring machine.
The GT380 was always a slow old dog and more of a touring machine.
-alan-
pfm Member
Ah, I know they would Arkless - but compared to the 2.5-3 secs 0-60 big bikes today, it does pale a fair bit. I have a lardy cruiser in the garage which could almost break the 3 secs if that was your thing - but you'd be laughed out of the place if you were ever mooted to describe it as 'quick'
Still a big fan of 2-strokes though. Someday, someday maybe..
Street legal(ish) OW31:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_tZ750.htm
Still a big fan of 2-strokes though. Someday, someday maybe..
Street legal(ish) OW31:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_tZ750.htm
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Ah, I know they would Arkless - but compared to the 2.5-3 secs 0-60 big bikes today, it does pale a fair bit. I have a lardy cruiser in the garage which could almost break the 3 secs if that was your thing - but you'd be laughed out of the place if you were ever mooted to describe it as 'quick'
Still a big fan of 2-strokes though. Someday, someday maybe..
Street legal(ish) OW31:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_tZ750.htm
Now that motorcycle porn!! I saw an "RD500", made by a "cut and shut" of two RD250's of course, a few years back in Westgate Rd in Newcastle ("Biker Bank" or "The Hill" for those not familiar with it). A TZ750 would certainly sort the men from the boys!
All things are relative of course and just because some modern bikes can do 200MPH does not make 130MPH slow! Also there's the way the power is delivered.... my CBR1100XX is super quick but my old highly tuned RD250 would feel more exciting, much more "raw" and possibly even seem faster from 0-60 as the modern bike makes it just so effortless.
Many had just turned 17 when they had these quick 2 stroke 250's and any car they would have been able to run would have taken about 15 seconds from 0 - 60! All relative yer see
-alan-
pfm Member
Yes, there's something special about those kind of mad strokers. Utterly subversive, and 'so full of want', as the Yoof round here have it.
On that we are agreed sire
Many had just turned 17 when they had these quick 2 stroke 250's and any car they would have been able to run would have taken about 15 seconds from 0 - 60! All relative yer see
On that we are agreed sire
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
I think it was David Jefferies who used to bend footpegs trying to turn them!
RustyB
Registered Ginga
A properly tuned proddy standard bike (exhaust was supposed to be stock but often wasn't, carbs stock but jetting changed, engine internals heavily modified,...) t
Hmmm... sounds you had a rather strange interpretation of "Production" racing over there. Over here, standard meant what it said, though of course the dealer supported bikes would be over-bored to the max and sport any secret tricks their spannerman thought they could get away with.
I remember after one race, the first five bikes were dragged off for a once-over; I would have been one of them, had I not got a neutral under braking and stupidly down-shifted, locked the rear and lost a few spots sorting out the resultant sideways mess. If they had checked my 350 LC they would have found the intake snorkel missing (it never had one).
The cool thing about the 350LC was its versatility: mine was a commuter, race bike and tourer, and it did all those things really well. Hard to fault those LC's, apart from the spaghetti forks.
Hmmm... sounds you had a rather strange interpretation of "Production" racing over there. Over here, standard meant what it said, though of course the dealer supported bikes would be over-bored to the max and sport any secret tricks their spannerman thought they could get away with.
I remember after one race, the first five bikes were dragged off for a once-over; I would have been one of them, had I not got a neutral under braking and stupidly down-shifted, locked the rear and lost a few spots sorting out the resultant sideways mess. If they had checked my 350 LC they would have found the intake snorkel missing (it never had one).
The cool thing about the 350LC was its versatility: mine was a commuter, race bike and tourer, and it did all those things really well. Hard to fault those LC's, apart from the spaghetti forks.
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
In my case, I think it was the (over) large rear tyre that stopped it turning easily. Maybe any big bike would have given me the same problem? A bike with the front and rear tyres the same (or nearer the same) size will turn easier, as I understand it, due to the comparative turning circle diameter. The SV with its 160 rear is easier than a 180 or 190. Also the SV is lighter, too.
But I still hang off on the road, it just feels normal to me now, especially as the suspension stays on track settings. I'm too lazy to change it, which makes for interesting ride-outs with the local group who are mainly on big adventure bikes, especially on some of the Cornish goat tracks we end up on!
Pete MB&D
Pete Maddex, the one and only!
My zxr750 now has a 180 instead of a 160 I needed to jack the back end up quite a bit to get it turning in quickly, so much it leans over quite a way on the side stand.
Kawasaki ZXR750j by Pete Maddex, on Flickr
Pete
Kawasaki ZXR750j by Pete Maddex, on FlickrPete
richardg
Admonishtrator
That's quite a big jump, did it not feel a bit more ponderous, if more grippy?My zxr750 now has a 180 instead of a 160 I needed to jack the back end up quite a bit to get it turning in quickly, so much it leans over quite a way on the side stand.
Pete
awkwardbydesign
Officially Awesome
On my SV I cut a short piece of 1" steel box section and screwed that to the bottom of the sidestand foot. Now it doesn't feel like it's about to topple over. My old Guzzi Spada DID fall over if the panniers were fully loaded. I had to move the sidestand further back.
Reminds me of when I had the Caterham. I used it to go to work a few times, and one day it was a bit drizzly so I said "sod it" and used the tintop instead. Coming back home that evening at what I thought was a normal enough speed the Volvo stepped out on a damp patch and we did the old sideways waltz. Turns out that an old Volvo on Korean washing up bowls doesn't *quite* have the cornering speed of a Caterham 7 on Yokohamas.
RustyB
Registered Ginga
especially as the suspension stays on track settings. I'm too lazy to change it, which makes for interesting ride-outs with the local group who are mainly on big adventure bikes, especially on some of the Cornish goat tracks we end up on![/QUOTE]
Not a good idea IME; RD 400 spat me off on bumpy corner, riding on the road with race set up on the forks.
Not a good idea IME; RD 400 spat me off on bumpy corner, riding on the road with race set up on the forks.