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Time for a motorbike list

The restyled and modded monoshock version was reportedly a much better machine.[/QUOTE]

That would be the GSX 750 ESD, which was an all-new design, and yes, a very good bike anywhere other than a race track.
 
The brother of a girlfriend of mine had a Kawasaki 1100 (1985 ish) - I had a go on the back, and was scared shitless!
 
RustyB said:
I'm with you on that one. I found those first Ducati V twins, for all their engine lovliness, to be stupidly slow steering to almost comic degree. Ahoy, corner coming up...start counter-steering now.... No chance to change line if you needed to. That's what you get with 5 inches of trail, 30 degrees of rake and a long wheelbase. Maybe those who reacted positively to the Ducati's stability had had one too many scary moments aboard wobble-'sakis.
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Yes indeed I went from Duke 860 GT to Kawa Z1000J and cornering the Kawa was very scary, but the Kawa was a much faster bike in a straight line. The long wheelbase of the Duke stopped the front wheel from lifting so from stationary 3500 revs, drop the clutch and with a first gear good for 70 no gear change needed and nothing could stay with it up to 60 mph. Tyre wear was poor though, black lines from the rear tyre every time. Happy days...
 
h.g. said:
I think we are only disagreeing about the handling which I found a bit like an off road bike. It tended to want you to sit upright and push the bike down rather than the opposite. Good or bad handling often seems to follow how one goes about riding a bike. For example, the bike press in the 70s and 80s used to rave about the handling of Ducatis which went round corners on rails. I found this type of handling a problem. In turn they disliked the tendency of the X7 to turn in which I could live with in order to have something that would turn quickly.
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Maybe into the realms of semantics here - but worth perhaps making the distinction between steering and handling. Generally, when the pros talk about handling it's how a bike reacts to inputs to the chassis, as opposed to steering which is how the bike turns into and holds its line in corners. The long wheel-base, slow steering chassis of things like the Ducatis turn into bends quite differently than twitchier short wheelbase things with tighter rake angles like X7s, and RD250s. The 'handling' - how it reacts to bumps mid-corner and the like - was a function of the stiffness of the chassis, and the ability of the front forks and rear suspension to react to perturbations mid corner.

I think the Italian stuff like Ducatis and Guzzis was lauded by the journos on account of the slower and more stable turning, coupled to the stiffer chassis and usually better sorted front and rear end damping and springing, Something the Japs cottoned onto somewhere around the time they introduced wrap-around frames and moved away from bargain-basement forks and Showa rear-shocks.
 
By the early 80's the Japs had started to produce sports bikes that combined stability and nimbleness, and rising-rate monoshock rear ends that worked very well.

Personally I think the ability to change lines or snap the bike into a corner is valuable tool for street riding, where you can expect the unexpected.
 
Rasher said:
Watching the Moto GP yesterday my little boy was asking if I had any motorbikes ever, so I had a think about it and came up with quite a list.
So, what have you guys had and how did they work out?

My list:

Yamaha RD125
Honda CJ 125
Suzuki GS650G Katana
Kawasaki Z1 900
Honda XL 250
Suzuki PE 175
Suzuki TS250
Suzuki GSXR750 MkII 1986 (Like the very first one but with slightly longer swingarm, in Skol Bandit colours) [bought new]
Suzuki GSXR750 Slingshot 1988 [bought new]
Suzuki GSXR750 WN
Harley Davison XL 1200 sportster [bought new]
Suzuki GSXR750 mkII again, cos I liked it best of all
Honda VFR400

I’m sure I’ve missed a couple which I’ll probably remember later.
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hi the gsxr750 was a beast in 86,lucky guy,and even luckier to be here,ive had few bikes rdlc250,x7,x5,xl125,kawasaki kh125,mz125,gpz550,gs 850 heavy,gutless lump,booked 2 tests 10 years ago,then cancelled,but the itch is back im 54 and a imprezza wrx 2.5 just doesn't cut it,regards charlie
 
I was on a Scotland trip last September with a mate, me on my 2002 Ducati SS, him on a Triumph Street triple. We swapped bikes for a while. He crashed my Ducati, puzzled as to why it did not want to go round the corner. The slow steering trait was still there up until maybe 2010 on all the bikes. I have ridden a Panigale and a Monster 796 and they steer much more neutrally.

You either get the Ducati steering or you don't. You have to get your line right. Not only is it slow to steer compared to most bikes, but if you shut the throttle off in a corner because you got the line wrong, you have the added complication of the bike's engine braking forcing the bike upright in the middle of the bend. The dollop of torque means though that you can brake in with slow corner speed and accelerate out and still be faster than a screaming 4 cylinder that goes into the bend nearly as fast as it comes out. As Fogarty demonstrated in Superbikes

Mine was the air-cooled 1100 motor, probably the worst for engine braking of all their engines. I am one of the may that does not ride a Ducati well! Hopefully the 750 will be easier in the bends. If not, I will move onto something else, possibly a ZX9R. A snarling sports tourer
 
RustyB said:
By the early 80's the Japs had started to produce sports bikes that combined stability and nimbleness, and rising-rate monoshock rear ends that worked very well.

Personally I think the ability to change lines or snap the bike into a corner is valuable tool for street riding, where you can expect the unexpected.
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I bought a Suzuki SV650S (new) in 2000 and uprated the suspension and brakes. A longer rear shock made it turn much quicker, but needed a steering damper. A few years later I changed it to a 1993 Fireblade, thinking I needed more power (I didn't really, just needed more skill!). and I had to hang off the thing and really weight the inner footpeg to get it to turn, even on the road. I probably looked ridiculous, but after the SV it felt like a bus. It was stable enough, but hard work. Now I'm back with an SV and find it so much easier.
But this year I bought a Guzzi Cali 1100, with footboards, and that just won't turn unless I put lots of weight on the inner plate. A bit disconcerting if I've recently ridden the SV, and forget!
 
Poorly scanned pic of my 900SS.

900ss_zpscepbaqfk.jpg


Must have been c.1996? One of the first Cagiva era Ducs. It definitely was on the slow-steering side. I remember dropping the forks a couple of inches in the yokes to try to improve things, but in all honesty wasn't a good enough rider to be able to detect any difference. Did make it a bit easier to get both sets of toes on the ground at junctions though :)
 
herb said:
Yes indeed I went from Duke 860 GT to Kawa Z1000J and cornering the Kawa was very scary, but the Kawa was a much faster bike in a straight line. The long wheelbase of the Duke stopped the front wheel from lifting so from stationary 3500 revs, drop the clutch and with a first gear good for 70 no gear change needed and nothing could stay with it up to 60 mph. Tyre wear was poor though, black lines from the rear tyre every time. Happy days...
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sounds great,love black lines
 
kondo said:
hi the gsxr750 was a beast in 86,lucky guy,and even luckier to be here,ive had few bikes rdlc250,x7,x5,xl125,kawasaki kh125,mz125,gpz550,gs 850 heavy,gutless lump,booked 2 tests 10 years ago,then cancelled,but the itch is back im 54 and a imprezza wrx 2.5 just doesn't cut it,regards charlie
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I have a soft spot for the GS850. Very heavy yes, one of the heaviest bikes ever made in fact, but still pretty quick IME. Has the legs on many 750's of the day, just, and surprisingly good handling for such a behemoth of a shafty. Very reliable sports tourer in its day.
 
and I had to hang off the thing and really weight the inner footpeg to get it to turn, even on the road. I probably looked ridiculous, but after the SV it felt like a bus. It was stable enough, but hard work. Now I'm back with an SV and find it so much easier.
But this year I bought a Guzzi Cali 1100, with footboards, and that just won't turn unless I put lots of weight on the inner plate. A bit disconcerting if I've recently ridden the SV, and forget![/QUOTE]

Surprised to hear that about a Blade, doesn't fit the name! Different bikes require different techniques. For example, with the FZ 750's, long, low c-o-g, heavy weight bias to the front, counter-steering vigorously was the only way to make them turn, 16 inch front notwithstanding. Transferring that technique to the RF 900 just didn't work. Weighting the pegs was the best way to turn the Suzuki.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
I have a soft spot for the GS850. Very heavy yes, one of the heaviest bikes ever made in fact, but still pretty quick IME. Has the legs on many 750's of the day, just, and surprisingly good handling for such a behemoth of a shafty. Very reliable sports tourer in its day.
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hi,i didn't have it very long,i think the weight made me wary,and my mate left me on twisty roads with 250lc,which I got next,great days
 
kondo said:
hi,i didn't have it very long,i think the weight made me wary,and my mate left me on twisty roads with 250lc,which I got next,great days
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I became adept at finding parking places where I didn't need to reverse it a few yards up hill before pulling away! Bloody heavy! IIRC only the Harley Electra-glide and Kwaka Z1300 were heavier at the time.. the Z by only 10-20 lbs.
 
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