advertisement


Ribbon Tweeters

richgilb said:
Luddite question...I guess by reducing the output of the main driver, I can reduce the effect of the different speeds, so rolling off a touch of lows might help....but do all frequencies travel at the same speed, ie everything from the main driver travels at the same pace? If this following equation is correct, it cannot be the case, meaning whatever we do, we will never match the speeds: Speed = Wavelength x Frequency. With all wavelengths different in length, all the frequencies are coming to our ears at different times, right?
Click to expand...
I think you are misunderstanding speed. Not sound waves, but rise and settling times. Like this.
mtwillet_mt1_tweet_impulse.png

Preferably not this!
=
666WP3fig03.jpg
 
Always thought that ribbons are nice (tend to sound good that is) when the listener is ideally seated on-axis but listening vertically off-axis is poor. Has this issue been solved?
 
sortof said:
Always thought that ribbons are nice (tend to sound good that is) when the listener is ideally seated on-axis but listening vertically off-axis is poor. Has this issue been solved?
Click to expand...
That's not an issue. It's a characteristic. Like I've stated before if you're happy to live with it the pros definitely outweigh the cons for me.
awkwardbydesign said:
Err, I think you'll find that music is full of impulses! Try drums, cymbals, or almost any percussion instrument. But anyway, it's simply a measure of the ability of the drivers.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. And anyone who tries to improve clarity and focus with FIR is attempting to do just that.
 
sortof said:
Always thought that ribbons are nice (tend to sound good that is) when the listener is ideally seated on-axis but listening vertically off-axis is poor. Has this issue been solved?
Click to expand...
A line array, or long ribbon addresses this.
RBN_family.jpg
But every solution brings different problems. I happen to like ribbons; I still regret selling my Decca London ribbons, but I know where they are! At the moment I am in the middle of integrating a pair of Mundorf AMTs into my speakers, but the downstairs toilet build is delaying that. Most dome tweeters seem to have some resonance issues that I am susceptible to, whereas planars don't. I include ribbons, isodynamics, electrostatics and AMTs in that.
BTW richglib, AMTs DO spit out sound faster than other tweeters, so could be called fast! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer
 
richgilb said:
Luddite question...I guess by reducing the output of the main driver, I can reduce the effect of the different speeds, so rolling off a touch of lows might help....but do all frequencies travel at the same speed, ie everything from the main driver travels at the same pace? If this following equation is correct, it cannot be the case, meaning whatever we do, we will never match the speeds: Speed = Wavelength x Frequency. With all wavelengths different in length, all the frequencies are coming to our ears at different times, right?
Click to expand...
All I know is that by having a mid dome and a well designed crossover makes the speaker a speaker and not a woofer and a tweeter. I've heard years ago the Tensor Beta and it was quite an experience. A detailed but balanced sound with extended but not harsh highs with the mids being right where they should be and a low tight bass. It was the first time I heard a speaker with such a detailed sound but it wasn't tiring, I could listen music for hours.


 
awkwardbydesign said:
A line array, or long ribbon addresses this.
RBN_family.jpg
But every solution brings different problems. I happen to like ribbons; I still regret selling my Decca London ribbons, but I know where they are! At the moment I am in the middle of integrating a pair of Mundorf AMTs into my speakers, but the downstairs toilet build is delaying that. Most dome tweeters seem to have some resonance issues that I am susceptible to, whereas planars don't. I include ribbons, isodynamics, electrostatics and AMTs in that.
BTW richglib, AMTs DO spit out sound faster than other tweeters, so could be called fast! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer
Click to expand...

Most half decent dome tweeters shift break up beyond human hearing (unless you are a bat, in which case I fully agree).

Your 'resonance issues' could be a poorly designed Xover and/or driver choice with break up modes of the Bass/mid or mid only driver rather than the tweeter?
 
Kostas said:
All I know is that by having a mid dome and a well designed crossover makes the speaker a speaker and not a woofer and a tweeter. I've heard years ago the Tensor Beta and it was quite an experience. A detailed but balanced sound with extended but not harsh highs with the mids being right where they should be and a low tight bass. It was the first time I heard a speaker with such a detailed sound but it wasn't tiring, I could listen music for hours.
Click to expand...
AMT tweeters, right? Which is what I now have.
 
drummerman said:
Most half decent dome tweeters shift break up beyond human hearing (unless you are a bat, in which case I fully agree).

Your 'resonance issues' could be a poorly designed Xover and/or driver choice with break up modes of the Bass/mid or mid only driver rather than the tweeter?
Click to expand...
Nope. I have heard and made enough speakers to be quite confident it was the domes I didn't like. Not every dome, of course, but enough for me to generally prefer non-domes.
 
awkwardbydesign said:
A line array, or long ribbon addresses this.
RBN_family.jpg
Click to expand...
Err no, the taller the array, the more directional it get vertically, so listening height becomes critical. Useful for efficient sound distribution in a concert hall, but not in the home at a distance of 2m from the speaker
 
richgilb said:
Lol better than the tweeters on my Spendors and Ditton 66. No idea what audio stratosphere you are in but I am poor and in my price range they sound great.
Click to expand...
No need to be in stratosphere. There still exist very good silk domes that costs 50 bucks each (scan-speak, morel, even vifa). I also cannot afford the best*, but I think they are a better compromise than cheap ribbons.
Let's make an example with ProAC which everybody knows: the R versions do sound worse than their dome counterpart and older models. Tyler seems to just experiment with new drivers (ribbons, then carbon and now some composite cone material) without fully assessing strengths and weaknesses, just to make new models. Other makers (danish mostly) just put the expensive ceramics just for the sake of it. Sorry for the digression.

*I could afford a pair of used Kithara speakers but their bass integration with the AMT is poor, so I didn't get them.
 
Ribbon *midranges* are best for vocal. Voice tones starts way lower than most ribbon tweters can be crossed to.
 
davidsrsb said:
Err no, the taller the array, the more directional it get vertically, so listening height becomes critical. Useful for efficient sound distribution in a concert hall, but not in the home at a distance of 2m from the speaker
Click to expand...
But most of us sit at a particular height which hardly varies, so less of a problem for most. But I said every solution brings other problems. Each of us has to decide which problems ARE problems. My wife and I sit at opposite ends of the sofa, so horizontal dispersion matters, vertical less so.
 
One consequence of narrow vertical dispersion is that you won't get much floor and ceiling reflection.
I like the sound of ESL 63s, everything seems to fit together. Not practical for my home in the tropics unfortunately
 
sq225917 said:
Yup they're AMTs.

I have a set of RAAL 140-15D that replace the tweeters on my ns1000m, I wouldn't swap them back.

S-Man, maybe the fast sound does come from a distortion in some ribbons, or maybe it comes from a better impulse response, narrower Q or a myriad of other possibilities. I don't think my RAALS sound fast in the way I've heard some ribbons and AMTs, I just like the way they couple to the room.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what you mean when you say that you like the way tweeters "couple to the room"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top