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Ribbon Tweeters

I accept the subjective comments about the "fast" sound of ribbon tweeters, but what parameter demonstrates this?
A decent soft dome can reach >>20KHz and it has to move sufficiently fast to be able to do that. Do things really sound fast if they can go faster/higher than this?

Some damning comments on ribbons here:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

Does the "fast" sound come from distortion?

OTOH these have amazing specs (at a significant price point):
http://www.raalribbon.com/download/raal_140-15d.pdf
I take it you're not a fan? Is that based on first hand experience or is it purely academic?
 
I accept the subjective comments about the "fast" sound of ribbon tweeters, but what parameter demonstrates this?
A decent soft dome can reach >>20KHz and it has to move sufficiently fast to be able to do that. Do things really sound fast if they can go faster/higher than this?

Indeed. The capability of physically move air quickly is measured by high frequency extension. Do ribbons go higher in frequency response (at the same amplitude) as dome tweeters?
 
Indeed. The capability of physically move air quickly is measured by high frequency extension. Do ribbons go higher in frequency response (at the same amplitude) as dome tweeters?


Some go twice as high. Tweeter domes are done at 20-22k, any higher and they have to be made for the task and loose the bottom end ability. My ribbons are 3k-above 30k (not that i expect anything from that)
 
Yes I use an old pair of Infinity Modulas standmounts with ribbon tweeters. They are the EMIT-k as used in the IRS towers.

modulus_01.jpg



https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1190infinity/index.html

They are ridiculously open and free from character.

In fact I love them so much, that I use the same tweeter in my car.. searched for a pic, but the best I can find is this. I run these with horns which tail off at about 18k, so the emits are actively crossed from here up.. it’s quite amazing how much Air, height and ambience they bring to pretty much all recordings. If your listening to something recorded live, turning the emits on makes you sense the room, switch them off and your back listening to a hifi.

xTcurT1.jpg
 
I've had limited experience with them but those I have heard were in the Ruark Crusader and the Dali Mentor/Helicon range, I liked all of them a lot. All these speakers were very fast, transparent/detailed and had pin point imaging.
 
I had a pair of Adam S2v for a short while.... luckily I bought them from a pro audio shop who were easy about sale or return. The treble sounded like it was coming from a completely different speaker than the bass, just didn't match at all.

Previous experience of ribbon tweeters was on Dali Helicon 400, where the treble duties were shared between a normal silk dome and a ribbon and that seemed to work very nicely.
Yes, well sort of. Depending on your ear I can tell form mine that this might be an issue. I'd go 3-way on the next pair. My last Adams were and they were awesome. Unfortunately I am skint right now so 2 way it has to be
 
I have a pair of IPL S5TL Mk2s, built from a kit...

http://iplacoustics.co.uk/S5tl Kevlar 2.htm

...these are the tweeters

http://loudspeakerfreaks.com/Product.asp?mfr=HiVi Research&part=RT1.3M&Product_ID=8391

...they're advertised as 'Isodynamic Ribbon Tweeters', but definitely have a 'yellow pleating look', so are they actually AMTs?

Yep, they look like AMT units and the mention of Kevlar tends to support that.

Above the RAAL ribbons are mentioned and they are extremely good - more expensive than many ribbons but also immediately and obviously better.
 
I had a pair of Adam S2v for a short while.... luckily I bought them from a pro audio shop who were easy about sale or return. The treble sounded like it was coming from a completely different speaker than the bass, just didn't match at all...
It's because the woofer can't match the speed and clarity of the AMT. If you can audition a 3 way Adam you'll understand they are in another league from the smaller ones. They are expensive but considering the monoblocks that come with them are a bargain compared to some "high end" speakers. They are perfect for a music lover who doesn't want to change equipment all the time. I have my humble Dali's for seven years, I could live my whole life with S5's and just upgrade digital sources or a cartidge in my analog setup.

 
Those S5’s do look good.

I’ve only heard the very small, cheap Adam actives and thought they sounded a bit lifeless. I’d like to hear the big ones.
 
My sister has a pair of these with the accompanying micro system, they're hardly high end, but they're not too shabby for the modest amount the system cost. They're not wonderfully well intergrated with the (I think) polypropylene mid-woofer, but they do sound very good with violins etc. I've often wondered if I might find a use for the tweeters when the micro system ultimately gives up!
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No, I'm not: most ribbons are harsh, distorted and unnatural. There are exceptions of course, such as Raal ribbons and Precide Heil AMT. Mundorf AMT should be pretty good too, but I haven't heard them. All chinese ones are crap and so are those on your Adam.
 
It's because the woofer can't match the speed and clarity of the AMT. If you can audition a 3 way Adam you'll understand they are in another league from the smaller ones. They are expensive but considering the monoblocks that come with them are a bargain compared to some "high end" speakers. They are perfect for a music lover who doesn't want to change equipment all the time. I have my humble Dali's for seven years, I could live my whole life with S5's and just upgrade digital sources or a cartidge in my analog setup.

Luddite question...I guess by reducing the output of the main driver, I can reduce the effect of the different speeds, so rolling off a touch of lows might help....but do all frequencies travel at the same speed, ie everything from the main driver travels at the same pace? If this following equation is correct, it cannot be the case, meaning whatever we do, we will never match the speeds: Speed = Wavelength x Frequency. With all wavelengths different in length, all the frequencies are coming to our ears at different times, right?
 
do all frequencies travel at the same speed

For all practical purposes yes.

If this following equation is correct, it cannot be the case, meaning whatever we do, we will never match the speeds: Speed = Wavelength x Frequency. With all wavelengths different in length, all the frequencies are coming to our ears at different times, right?

The equation is correct, but usually expressed as wavelength = speed / frequency. The speed is a constant, the wavelength depends on the frequency (in fact "wavelength" and "frequency" are kind of the same thing).
 
Many speakers with ribbon tweeters that I have seen tested have the ribbon set a few dB hot, so is the "fast" treble actually boosting rather than distortion? It seems to be a deliberate effect to attract attention in the shop
 


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