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Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 digital DAC

Used Brooklyn for some days this summer but I got tired of the sound, a little cold and irritating. More life and details with S2.
I use S2 at volume 0 on a Hegel H190.
 
lgrons58 said:
Used Brooklyn for some days this summer but I got tired of the sound, a little cold and irritating. More life and details with S2.
I use S2 at volume 0 on a Hegel H190.
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Can you tell us a bit about your system and about the music you listen to?

R
 
Hi all, have been reading through this thread with much interest. Especially great to have JohnW here with us too. Despite all of the technical back and forth, could I pester you for some feedback from the unit itself? Maybe it's here but certain I've read everything I can!

I'm currently using a Raspberry Pi & HifiBerry Digi+ / Benchmark DAC1 combo with Roon(mostly Tidal) and looking for something MQA compatible to feed my Nait 5i + KanII's (also going to Allo DigOne upgrade for Pi). In terms of financials, swapping the two DACs is pretty much negligible in terms of outlay (when adding iFi power), but wondering if L3 SQ+MQA (don't wish to open an MQA debate here!) is worth the upgrade against the Benchmark.

Thanks!
 
@anthonyb upgrading from the DAC1 would also get you DSD support. And a wider range of filters (except when playing MQA). But if you are satisfied with the DAC1's USB performance on its own, you may have to add a new anti-jitter accessory to this Pro-Ject box. Replacing the external power adapter with an iPower or something like that is only important if you have noisy mains, IMHO. Those would add to the total cost.

Now, SQ. Based upon posts here and on other forums, I'd say this question is entirely subjective, and you'll only know by listening. Objectively the Pre Box S2 Digital compares well to my Schiit stack, which is in a similar price range. That makes sense. I'm amazed though to see others write that it is competitive with DACs selling for several times as much! But from there, comparing the SQ of music both DACs can play — for you, PCM files and Tidal HiFi — is entirely subjective. Nobody else can tell you how your ears will react.

But I'd say that in my case and yours, yes, the DSD and MQA features alone are a good reason for trying this product, if only to satisfy curiosity at a reasonable price. (Personally I do not always like the sound of MQA. But as you noted, that is a discussion for a different thread.)
 
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tuga said:
Can you tell us a bit about your system and about the music you listen to?

R
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System 1: Nuprime DAC10-H*Nuprime ST-10*Monitor Audio Silver 8*Pro-ject RPM3 with Glans GMC-20*PC
System 2: Pro-ject Pre Box S2*Naim NAP100*Monitor audio Silver 2*iMac with Audirvana and Tidal*Nuprime WR100*jungSon CD player
The Hegel H190 had a problem with a little bit of transformer hum, waiting for a new one to replace Naim NAP100
I think the S2 sounds best as a DAC only.
Listen to Rock-Punk-Jet Lock,n Loll-Psychobilly etc.
 
anthonyb said:
Hi all, have been reading through this thread with much interest. Especially great to have JohnW here with us too. Despite all of the technical back and forth, could I pester you for some feedback from the unit itself? Maybe it's here but certain I've read everything I can!

I'm currently using a Raspberry Pi & HifiBerry Digi+ / Benchmark DAC1 combo with Roon(mostly Tidal) and looking for something MQA compatible to feed my Nait 5i + KanII's (also going to Allo DigOne upgrade for Pi). In terms of financials, swapping the two DACs is pretty much negligible in terms of outlay (when adding iFi power), but wondering if L3 SQ+MQA (don't wish to open an MQA debate here!) is worth the upgrade against the Benchmark.

Thanks!
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hi Anthony,
my setup is wee bit simmilar - SBC (few various ones, odroid xu4 and c2, and nanopi neo) running both squeezelite client as well as roon endpoints . Benchmark DAC2 HGC . And S2. Did get rid of pops/clicks in PCM and DSD via DOP modes with latest firmware upgrade. I do not hear sound degradation at all vs DAC2 with S2. And for tinkereres supporting PCM up to 768khz and DSD up to 512 and even MQA (which is questionable IMO) I am planning to sell Benchmark. I DO love it but if i can save some $ for another upgrade or buying more music ... i WILL miss Benchmark's preamp abilities (which come in handy plugging other DACs into it as sources and doing ABX compares) ... and it has balanced out's whcih my amp likes but it's working just as fine to my ear with unbalanced outs from Pro-ject DAC S2.

So i think you have little $ to lose , can sell S2 if you dont like it at 50$ loss and more likely you'll sell your used Benchmark for more then you paid for S2. If you have a preamp already, it is a no brainer :) !!!
 
--- FW upgrade - Beta version ---

@JohnW and the designer team - after FW upgrade - i have been really enjoying S2 DAC a lot. Sounds great. Clicks are for all practical purposes gone and with Roon there still might be an issue with MQA from time to time but i barely listen to MQAs. Tried upsampliing to 384/768khz PCM from all types of sources as well as DSD all the way to DSD512 ... all sounds great to me :)

There is one issue still left to be ironed out, and seems you are doing all your testing with foobar2000 which i use to organise my library as well but not for playback (as server is running LMS or Roon) and endpoints are linux boxes connected via USB to Pro-ject DAC S2.

So PCM and DoP DSD modes all work fine. DSD512 can only operate in 'Native' mode (not packed into DoP). It sort of works.. DSD64 gets sent as 88.2khZ, DSD128 as 176.4 and all the way to DSD512 as 768kHz (data rate). Display shows correct DSD setting ... however, when playing in Native mode DSD64 song after PCM 44.1 there is hiss that comes in after 1 sec and disappears in 5-10 seconds ... and often clicking between sample rate of DSD (any) and PCM causes loud clicks.
1st issue is visible with Roon and Squeezelite (Logitech Media server client) and if foobar2000 on windows can run native DSD64 rather then DoP you should be able to reproduce it. Second one is just usual clicks. When using DSD via DoP - all those issues are fixed with Bete firmware you shared month ago. but native mode is a problem and not a big deal in real life ... but as Linux Kernels since few weeks ago have by default support for Project DAC S2 (so no tinkering needed) ... it would be great if it can operate like 'other' DAC's that are supporting DSD Native mode.

Please let me know if anyone would look into it ... if i can help in any way - glad to do that.

PS. In the end - kernel support really means driver is built in. If it is UAC 2.0 compliant (and it is) and if it has DSD32-BigEndian support (and it does) - then it's kinda automatic and it works well except for those 2 scenarios i described above.

Thank you !!!
 
@left channel @gahabana Thank you both for your detailed responses. The curious tinkerer in me is saying go for it and play around with this DSD thing I'm not too familiar with. The DAC1 doesn't have USB input, I use coax from the HifiBerry board currently. I have seen John mention USB is the preferred input for the S2 so perhaps I'll get an Allo USBbridge instead.

Thanks again, I'll chime in once it's in the system with my feedback :)
 
Hi @left channel , my S2 has just arrive and is running version 1.2 - Please could you share with me latest Firmware as I guess it's worth me using that when comparing against my Prime & Brooklyn (using Roon)?

Thanks
Duncs
 
Duncs said:
Hi @left channel , my S2 has just arrive and is running version 1.2 - Please could you share with me latest Firmware as I guess it's worth me using that when comparing against my Prime & Brooklyn (using Roon)?

Thanks
Duncs
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Happy to! PM inbound. We'll be very interested to hear how it compares with the Prime and Brooklyn.
 
MagnusH said:
Its form Tidal, so I don't have the test tune as a file. But it was from the latest album by artist Lights, and the tune is called Kicks.

With MQA Passthrough enabled in the Tidal desktop app, the glitch also happens, so if you have Tidal you can use that instead. The glitch happens randomly though, so might need to play for a while.
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left channel said:
There's something wrong with Tidal's version of that track. Using the Tidal app for Windows I'm getting a glitch that I don't see or hear playing other tracks in the same album, at about 7 and 35 seconds into Kicks, not every time but often.

The only way to do a reliable MQA test is to download and play MQA files locally. I've used free downloads from the 2L Test Bench, which are somehow more age-appropriate than Lights/Cliffie for me...even after calculating half-plus-seven.
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@MagnusH after the latest update to the Tidal app for Windows (2.1.12.375) I tried that MQA track again and didn't experience the same glitches. There was a hiccup in a different place, about halfway through, but that wasn't repeatable and may have been a network thing.
 
Hi all!

Thought I'd write a few lines about my experiences of using the S2 with the beta FW (which left channel was kind enough to provide me with).

I bought the S2 to achieve a pleasant audio environment at work (I work in an open office area and need music to be able to work more focused) and use it exclusively with a pair of Shure SRH1540 and Tidal HiFi. It sounded great out-of-the-box but did not work very well with MQA in Tidal - no matter which Masters album I played, there were drop-outs and a popping sound at the beginning of each track. I am assuming this was due to changes in sampling frequency during the MQA unfold.

I was hoping that the beta FW would fix this, but it only got rid of the popping sound and this made me quite disappointed in the S2 since I tend to listen to full albums and it got very annoying when there were drop-outs whenever a new track was started. All this time I assumed that the issue was with the S2 since I use a Meridian Explorer 2 at home and have never experienced the same issue with MQA in Tidal.

Upon reading what left channel wrote about the Tidal desktop app above, I updated it earlier today, and discovered that MQA playback now seems to work flawlessly in Tidal. Finally, I can listen to full Masters albums without getting any drop-outs and I am now a very satisfied S2 owner :)

So, much to my surprise, the issue was apparently with Tidal after all. I have no clue why the Explorer 2 could handle the MQA unfolding without drop-outs while the S2 could not before the latest Tidal release though. The only thing I have noted is that judging from the LEDs on the Explorer 2, it also took a few seconds for it to unfold the MQA stream (change to blue light). I have however not had time to check how the LEDs behave with this new update (if there is something in the new version of Tidal that has sped up this process).
 
Thanks for your feedback @Distortioner ! Glad all has worked out for you. I sold my Benchmark today and have ordered the S2 and iFi power supply (with enough leftover for a USBridge), look forward to getting it into the system this week and reporting back. All the Best, Anthony
 
anthonyb said:
Thanks for your feedback @Distortioner ! Glad all has worked out for you. I sold my Benchmark today and have ordered the S2 and iFi power supply (with enough leftover for a USBridge), look forward to getting it into the system this week and reporting back. All the Best, Anthony
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You sold the Benchmark without trying the Pro-ject!?
I bought a universal player just for trying the sacd sound, the problem was, that all my cd players sound better than that player, so file support was really useless..
In the end a Dac is a Dac, is all about sound quality, what to do with MQA and DSD support, is SQ is average?
 
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