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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+2)?

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HairyHaggis said:
yes. damn them for having clearly defined rules and regulations and a clear idea of what needs to be settled. it's really not fair.
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The EU does indeed, being 'rules-based', have clearly defined rules and regulations, to which it very rigidly adheres.

Until it suits its purposes to ignore them.
 
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eternumviti said:
The EU does indeed, being 'rules-based', have clearly defined rules and regulations, to which it very rigidly adheres.

Until it suits its purposes to ignore them.
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i wonder in what way you perceive westminster to have been any different, currently, and through the centuries?
 
Quite, we're the ones leaving, the Europeans will do what's best for them irrespective of the effects on the UK (assuming that doesn't break up too). Cameron got us into this mess with no strategy, the real sponsors of Brexit look forward to a workforce from McAcademies in a minimum wage gig economy. The "entrepanures " who benefit care not for the consequences or sustainability as they see no further than next years balance sheet and the value of their (offshore) bank account. Meanwhile the rest of us including the 52% (of those who voted) that bought this crock based on lies and hate work to 70 for a pitiful pension with ultimately no NHS.
 
HairyHaggis said:
i wonder in what way you perceive westminster to have been any different, currently, and through the centuries?
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Do you mean Westminster politicians, or the processes by which this country is governed and run? I think Westminster's tendencies have been to take EU rules and regs, to gold plate them, and to then ensure that those who are affected by them adhere to them rigidly.

In the meantime the EU itself treats them as being largely optional, applied rigidly or completely ignored according to how they impact upon 'the project'.
 
eternumviti said:
Do you mean Westminster politicians, or the processes by which this country is governed and run? I think Westminster's tendencies have been to take EU rules and regs, to gold plate them, and to then ensure that those who are affected by them adhere to them rigidly.

In the meantime the EU itself treats them as being largely optional, applied rigidly or completely ignored according to how they impact upon 'the project'.
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Hmm. Yes let's blame them for doing what is entirely open to us as well. It's our jobsworth culture that slavishly follows rules that others have taken as guidelines.
 
So Mr E, if someone refused to pay for the wine you supplied, would you continue to enter into agreements to supply more? It’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that if we leave the EU, our trading relationship with them will be less positive than it currently is. In fact why should they help us one bit? We’ve chosen to leave the club and keep dicking around asking for the moon on a stick. I honestly cannot see how anyone can view our current position as anything other than a massive bullet/foot interface.
 
I'm not blaming them Steve, just commenting on the fact that that what the EU does, and that is how it works. It is in the different nature of Brits that we tend to go by the book.

It changes not the matter of cherry-picking and Brexit. Everyone seems to drone on about how the UK wants its cake etc, and how it wants to cherry-pick. Well, so does the EU, ffs. Its the name of the game, and so it will go on through a series of red lines and compromises until both sides feel as if they have got whatever it is that they think they want.

I just get a bit fed up of all this talk of the UK and 'cherry-picking'. NSS!
 
lordsummit said:
So Mr E, if someone refused to pay for the wine you supplied, would you continue to enter into agreements to supply more? It’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that if we leave the EU, our trading relationship with them will be less positive than it currently is. In fact why should they help us one bit? We’ve chosen to leave the club and keep dicking around asking for the moon on a stick. I honestly cannot see how anyone can view our current position as anything other than a massive bullet/foot interface.
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Sorry, who's refusing to pay for what?

I don't think that anyone with half a brain would fail to understand that it is in the interests of both sides to do everything that they can to ensure that the trading relationship remains on the most positive terms possible. I don't think the UK is asking the EU for 'help', or for the moon on a stick. It is asking it to apply common sense and pragmatism towards finding a set of solutions that will benefit everyone, or at least it seems reasonable to assume that it is.

You have to try to remember that there aren't just two sides to this. The EU's primary instinct is to protect its political project. However, the EU institutions aren't the master here, despite all their customarily arrogant posturing. The EU is ultimately going to have to be answerable to the governments of the EU member countries, and those governments are in turn answerable to their people and businesses. I know that it customary for the remain camp to belittle that annual £90bn with the tiresome 'oh so they need us more than we need them' jibe, but is an enormous sum of money, and entire regions of the EU, and not only along its English Channel border, are deeply dependent upon their trade with the UK.
 
We’ve been told repeatedly we can’t cherrypick. Guess what, the cunning plan is to cherrypick...

It’s like playing Poker when the other player has a straight and all we have are a couple of jokers and a numnut holding the cards.

We have two choices, we pays our money and take our medicine, or we walk away on some fantasy based dream. I’m betting on the second at the moment.
 
lordsummit said:
We’ve been told repeatedly we can’t cherrypick. Guess what, the cunning plan is to cherrypick..
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What's sauce for the goose....

NeilR said:
You didn't finish the sentence. it should be '...and come crawling back in a few years begging to be re-admitted when it is realised that the fantasy did not match the reality'.
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Ha! I doubt it. I think that the current antics of the EU 'elite' are only serving to cement peoples' opinions against the EU, including what I suspect are increasing numbers of those who voted to remain in.

Notwisthstanding the EU institutions' sheer bloody-minded determination to make the project succeed at any cost, what is it you are so confident it is that will still be there for the UK to 'crawl' back to, anyway, or indeed that it will be something that we would want to be part of? The whole thing is only ever a fag paper away from another crisis. It is currently only held together by the ECB money-printing machines, Macron's dynamism and a great deal of wishful thinking. The next hurdle comes with the Italian elections next week, which could go horribly wrong. I wish I were as confident in the future as you are.
 
Ah yes it's the EU's fault we decided to self destruct. Another pathetic attempt to make it sound like we are the victims. Do you always blame others when (God forbid) you make a wrong call?
 
SteveS1 said:
Ah yes it's the EU's fault we decided to self destruct. Another pathetic attempt to make it sound like we are the victims. Do you always blame others when (God forbid) you make a wrong call?
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You've completely lost me. Where did I paint the UK as the victim? Where did I blame the EU for the UK's 'self-destruction', when I don't believe that the UK is doing anything of the kind. You do seem adept at putting words in mouths.

The people of this country aren't victims, even if we are clearly bl**dy fools sometimes, and wretchedly slow to come to our senses.
 
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