Big Tabs
looking backwards, going forwards
With the massive population, India has a chance to lead in its treatment of its people.
Then it can influence the rest of the planet.
Moon Landing .. congrats to India
- Thread starter hifinutt
- Start date
With the massive population, India has a chance to lead in its treatment of its people.
Then it can influence the rest of the planet.
Tony L
Administrator
I was attempting to counter the racism on this thread by pointing out India is a country moving forward, whereas we are at present moving backwards. I don’t see how that was such a confusing point to make. If you want to make human rights arguments compare both nations now with where they were twenty years ago; India moving forwards, the UK moving backwards. Neither are even remotely perfect, but the direction of travel is significant.
Cheese
Bitter lover
Let us put the latest achievement in context. India ignited its first nuclear bomb in 1973 I think. It takes a massive amount of money to achieve such a project, and the infrastructures, the physical as well as the human resources built up for this endeavour should have helped the country make a serious leap forward on all grounds. Seen from today this hasn't really taken place. Neither in Pakistan btw.
Comes to mind, much of the Indian nuclear project was probably done by the Soviets. A pity.
Comes to mind, much of the Indian nuclear project was probably done by the Soviets. A pity.
Last edited:
paulfromcamden
Baffled
To the problem is when people say 'India' are they referring to the people in power or the population, society, culture etc? I wouldn't wish to be judged by the actions of the UK's government.
I'm also a little uncomfortable pointing the finger at a country where British colonial rule is in living memory.
You've made it clear that your issue is with the massive inequality in the country based on caste, gender etc. which I would agree with.
It's a country I've always wanted to visit but I know I would find seeing the crushing poverty and inequality very hard to deal with.
wulbert
pfm Member
'Kin'ell ! That's cheap. We spent 466 times that amount on a Covid app & call-centre system that didn't work.
Amazing achievement. I've been totally avoiding the news recently, so missed the build-up to this.
Big Tabs
looking backwards, going forwards
Ponty
pfm Member
You need to see it through your own eyes. It also makes you realise that the problems in the west exist within an entirely different universe. It’s not just the extreme poverty, but the extreme wealth, which makes the top 1% here look like paupers. They have money, they just choose to keep it extraordinarily concentrated. When I was there for a friends wedding, we were invited to their family house in Delhi for supper. On the gate were 2 armed security guards to keep people out. They’re weren’t there just for show, put it that way.
Big Tabs
looking backwards, going forwards
It is a country I have never wanted to visit.
The treatment of women, and the heat being two instant reasons.
For the record - my Mother-in-Law grew up in India, and was definitely part of the tail end of the British Raj. Adds another dimension to my viewpoint.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
that is normal for say upper middle classes. Gated communities for those with the money.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Fair enough. There are a bunch of countries I would never visit because of state homophobia - though I recognise it's often partially a hangover from colonial rule - so it would be hypocritical of me to object.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
Delhi and other places are rather cool in the winter. The tea gardens in Darjeeling are not only beautiful in the summer, but also very moderate in climate.
wulbert
pfm Member
^^^^
This shite, over and over, again and again. Criticism of the UK, or hope for a better and fairer UK is not credible because there are much worse countries to live in.
Well-healed Brits tour the planet's poorest, most unequal countries (usually ones we've sucked dry) then return to tell us all we don't know how bloody lucky we are (compared to countries where turds still float down the streets and rivers).
I know I'm lucky. I know I'm privileged. But I won't descend into complacency just because I'm doing very nicely myself thanks. There's eff-all I can do about India's poor but I can fight and vote and argue for a better life for my neighbour and fellow Brits.
This shite, over and over, again and again. Criticism of the UK, or hope for a better and fairer UK is not credible because there are much worse countries to live in.
Well-healed Brits tour the planet's poorest, most unequal countries (usually ones we've sucked dry) then return to tell us all we don't know how bloody lucky we are (compared to countries where turds still float down the streets and rivers).
I know I'm lucky. I know I'm privileged. But I won't descend into complacency just because I'm doing very nicely myself thanks. There's eff-all I can do about India's poor but I can fight and vote and argue for a better life for my neighbour and fellow Brits.
Ponty
pfm Member
These were armed guards outside their own house. Not far off over here IMHO!
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
I found this on an India-based website:
How much does Chandrayaan-3 cost?
According to the former Chairman of ISRO, K Sivan, the total cost of Chandrayaan-3 is Rs. 615 crore. The lander, rover, and propulsion cost around Rs. 215 crore and the launch costs around Rs. 365 crore. The mission has an estimated total cost of around $74 million.
Impressive.
Cheese
Bitter lover
Congratulations for doing nicely, and thanks for voting.
I guess there are a lot of ways to calculate the total cost of a lunar mission. Has the salary of the professors of astrophysics been counted in ?
I say that because my choirmaster recently told me that bringing up a world-famous concert pianist (like say Lang Lang and very few others) costs billions. Indeed, these are prestige projects which involve the building of music schools all over the country, the hiring of music professors from abroad, the subsidization of lessons, the building of a concert hall that overshadows every other hall ever built. All this was done earlier by the Jewish, the Soviets, the Americans, the Japanese. Now it is the turn of the Chinese, and I can well imagine in 20 years time the appearance of a great Indian pianist recording *the* absolute and definitive set of 32 Beethoven sonatas. In that sense, a lunar mission always costs billions.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
In our business we have marketing types that look at demographics. The better educated middle class and above in India are, in number, very similar to the total population of Europe. Which still leaves a very large number of poor (even by their measures) lower class.
PaulMB
pfm Member
No, not hypocritical at all. Homophobia has always existed, look at the Bible! It has and does exist in all countries, including those that were never under colonial rule. So you are perfectly right. Just today I was looking for a hotel in Tuscany and came across one that presents itself as "gay friendly." I thought, "What the f--k do they mean? That they accept reservations from same-sex couples? Or that they do not have gays beaten up in the corridors? For some reason that I cannot quite fathom, their self-definition of "gay friendly" struck me as offensive. But, not being gay myself, perhaps there is something I do not understand.
Sean Regan
pfm Member
There's so much poverty in India. One of my sons is a consultant engineer. On a visit to Delhi, he was taken by car from the airport on a wide main road, Either side there were high walls protecting large houses behind them. Between the walls and the road on both sides there were shanty towns.
I'd like to think that we weren't as a nation, still providing financial aid to India, but the doo-gooders will try to justify this. Common sense says that our government should not be providing money to a country where those in power can't be assed to put their own people's welfare before totally unnecessary space exploration.
I'd like to think that we weren't as a nation, still providing financial aid to India, but the doo-gooders will try to justify this. Common sense says that our government should not be providing money to a country where those in power can't be assed to put their own people's welfare before totally unnecessary space exploration.