Moon Landing .. congrats to India

[droodzilla]

What @gintonic said.

It's a great achievement and a sign that the global order is changing.

I enjoyed vicariously celebrating it with the team at the control centre and was struck by how many women were present. It reminded me of one of my favourite quantum mechanics lecturers on YouTube:

If nothing else, it will challenge ignorant notions about India being a backwater.

 

[Big Tabs]

More than that. India is on the way up. A nation clearly in ascendancy whilst the tired, broken and hopelessly ageing west is in terminal decline. This was a great achievement and I wish them luck with whatever they build from it.

Time will tell.
When the upper echelons begin to care for their people as a whole, that will be worth celebrating.

“India continues to struggle with high youth unemployment and less than 50% of working-age Indians are in the workforce. The figure for women is even lower, with just 20% of women participating in the formal labour market, a figure that is decreasing as India develops.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-china-to-become-worlds-most-populous-country

 

[Tony L]

“India continues to struggle with high youth unemployment and less than 50% of working-age Indians are in the workforce. The figure for women is even lower, with just 20% of women participating in the formal labour market, a figure that is decreasing as India develops.”

The age demographic of India are vastly more healthy than in the ageing dying western nations; most of the population is of working age.

Political YouTuber Vaush put a very interesting video on this, basically pointing out that the UK is done for with an unworkable age balance (vast numbers of non productive pensioners, not enough people working to support them, visceral right-wing racism blocking the immigration we desperately need economically etc). Japan is in even worse shape than us. He used India as an example of a country that was close to the theoretical ideal in this area even if it has many other political and social issues. It is a nation in ascendency. We are in decline:

It is IMHO an articulate and well researched take from someone far from our shores able to look at things a little more clearly and dispassionately. tldr; the UK is ****ed.

 

[gintonic]

challenge ignorant notions about India being a backwater.

it certainly isnt that and hasn't been for a while

was struck by how many women were present.

Whilst i dont disagree - you are looking at a wafer thin proportion of successful scientists. We have to understand that women are massively oppressed in certain parts of Indian society. and this is unlikely to change.

I am always struck by the vast difference in regional attitudes in India - got talk to kids in Mumbai and see the difference to say Chandigarh....or some other second cities....

I dont see why we cant leave this thread as a celebration of India's achievements, and not turn into a little britain bashing thread (again). There are lots of reasons why the demographic is as it is in India.

 

[Tony L]

I dont see why we cant leave this thread as a celebration of India's achievements, and not turn into a little britain bashing thread (again).

You have no idea how much of my time has been spent removing racist posts from this thread so far. Truly depressing stuff even if intended as humour. I’m just bringing some facts to pop any remaining antiquated English exceptionalism.

 

[Nero]

Now maybe India could take care of its huge poor population instead of spending money on space exploration and nuclear weapons.

For India, read UK
For space exploration, read HS2

Great achievement. Soon our iPhones will come from India too.

 

[gintonic]

Soon our iPhones will come from India too.

oh yes, the west exploiting low paid workers to assemble a technology. Eventually they will find somewhere cheaper - Bangladesh, Africa, Nepal........

 

[Tony L]

oh yes, the west exploiting low paid workers to assemble a technology. Eventually they will find somewhere cheaper - Bangladesh, Africa, Nepal........

There will be a shift to design as well as manufacturing as the west becomes increasingly irrelevant. It has already happened with China (which admittedly has been running a subsidised government strategy to destabilise the industrial west for decades now). We are already at the point where most high tech manufacturing takes place in China. This is not just because of price, but because the skillset (and will) no longer exists here. India is following that model and will succeed without being a dictatorship. The space program is a statement of intent. It shows they need help from no one technologically.

 

[Kirk]

Great day for India. And only cost $75m. Bargain vs US and Russia.

 

[Ponty]

The age demographic of India are vastly more healthy than in the ageing dying western nations; most of the population is of working age.

Yes, it’s the welfare state and healthcare which keep older, unproductive, expensive westerners plodding on. Good luck with that in India if you have no money. Have you spent time there? Fascinating country but if you think social mobility is a problem here, you’re in for one hell of a shock. My wife’s spent a fair bit of time there on business, as a white blonde woman, her experiences have been somewhat interesting to say the least. What they do have is work ethic, something which seems to have largely disappeared in much of the west through complacency (although less so in the US IMHO). In India, if you don’t work, you don’t eat. That somewhat focuses the mind.

 

[Tony L]

Great day for India. And only cost $75m. Bargain vs US and Russia.

That is astonishing! Seems an accurate figure too (CNBC). Meanwhile Tory peer Michelle Mone steals more than 3x that from the UK tax payer and is still at large.

 

[Cheese]

You have no idea how much of my time has been spent removing racist posts from this thread so far.

What is even more depressing is that racism is alive and well in India too. In many ways, they have a long way to go, and - sorry but it is a fact - society, in most western countries, is way more egalitarian than in India. In that sense we are still leading, and by some margin, nothwithstanding the rich-poor gap which seems to be increasing here too.

I write this as a lover of India, who spent nearly a year there and projecting to return there in two years time for an extended stay. The country is on the right way, but is not there yet, this will take a few more decades. On the paper it is democratic, but countries with such a large share of poor people are corrupt by definition, and this way worse than any western country. It's just not comparable. And a corrupt country cannot be a democratic country.

Oh and I wouldn't mind the return to power of the Congress Party, alas things don't look favourable for them currently.

 

[Kirk]

That is astonishing! Seems an accurate figure too (CNBC). Meanwhile Tory peer Michelle Mone steals more than 3x that from the UK tax payer and is still at large.

"The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) had a budget of around just $74 million for the mission.

NASA, by comparison, is on track to spend roughly $93 billion on its Artemis moon programme through 2025, the U.S. space agency's inspector general has estimated." (Reuters).

 

[gintonic]

There will be a shift to design as well as manufacturing

maybe eventually, but it will be exceptionally slow - and it will shift from mass employment assembly to design and innovation, and another place will get to assemble.

 

[gintonic]

What is even more depressing is that racism is alive and well in India too. In many ways, they have a long way to go, and - sorry but it is a fact - society, in most western countries, is way more egalitarian than in India.

aint that the truth - and in my many years of working there, this has shown no sign of improving (sadly) - the only places i have ever been racially abused were at a cricket match in Ahmedabad and Peshawar (in Pakistan)

 

[Ponty]

aint that the truth - and in my many years of working there, this has shown no sign of improving (sadly) - the only places i have ever been racially abused were at a cricket match in Ahmedabad and Peshawar (in Pakistan)

You’ve spent far more time there than me, in my experience racism is just standard. Similar to when Alf Garnett was on prime time TV.

 

[Big Tabs]

the UK is ****ed.

off topic, why not see if you can crowbar your ‘U.K. is …..’ into the Crocs thread?

I don’t understand the relevance when discussing India and its achievements versus its social care record and treatment of women.

 

[Cheese]

in my many years of working there, this has shown no sign of improving

I have visited Calcutta in 1991 and 1999, I saw a big big difference been made in these eight years, the huge heaps of rubbish have all disappeared, the place was nearly clean and traffic seemed organised to some extent. The long-planned underground line was finally in the making. This gave me hope - of course beggars were sent away, God knows how they survived since, and where.

 

[paulfromcamden]

When the upper echelons begin to care for their people as a whole, that will be worth celebrating.

See also the rest of the planet sadly.

 

[gintonic]

i visited Kolkata 8 to 10 times, over a period of about 12 years between from about 2002 onwards, and my observations over that time were it remains a litter strewn place, chaotic traffic (although not as bad as Bangalore).