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Homelessness

Yeah, the guy's attitude at having his offer declined was déclasśe, to say the least. The word I forgot to include when I mentioned 'a quick, safe and an easy buck' was generous: the wages would have to be charitably more than the going rate in order to avoid even the remotest hint of exploitation. As you say, Sean, Uberisation might occur if it became a widespread thing. As for a macro solution, I don't have any answers there I'm afraid beyond my not voting for the Tories.
 
droodzilla said:
The guy in the SUV sounds like a right charmer.

I'm sure you mean well but, if you really want to help a homeless person, just give them the money or buy them a sandwich.

Or, better still, vote for a government that gives a damn and will tackle the root causes of homelessness.
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Feel free to just give me the money so I can just give them the money - I promise I'll let them know it came from you! ;)
 
Seanm said:
When there are jobs that need to be done and people who need money it's obvious to look for ways to join the two things up. But the most direct way of doing things isn't always the best. I think we have to try to change things at the level of the state because that's where the problem is caused. At the moment, unemployment is built into the system and is used to keep wages and inflation down. In other words people are forced out of work and then pilloried for being idle, as if it were their fault. It's completely mad, and we develop a mad way of looking at work as a result: we see it at once as an obligation ("Why aren't you working! Welfarism has made us soft!") and as a privilege ("Why aren't you grateful for the chance to wash my wheels!")

Work - good work – ought to be a right, not a privilege to be doled out by private patrons or enforced by the state. We need to stop using unemployment as a weapon and stop thinking about work like Victorians. A job guarantee programme might just be able to accomplish this shift and the idea is now getting some mainstream attention. In the meantime just give people money if they need it.
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Exceptionally well put.
It seems to me that in the last couple of decades, the British public has allowed its perception of the relationship betweem the individual and the state to be deliberately poisoned by the forces of the right, the neo-cons, the laissez'faire, the bottom line merchants, the Tories and the sort of human detritus championed by Dacre and his fellow vermin.

Maybe we should remind ourselves that it was only in 1906, that the last of the Poor Laws were repealed ( by Churchill IIRC) and the first legislation to see the State officially recognise, via legislation ( Labour Exchanges Act or similar.. I don't have time to research it at present.) that there was no necessary connection between worklessness and fecklessness. The state finally admitted that there could be high unemployment in one place, yet labour shortages elsewhere. This led to early Labour Exchanges and later to more sophisticated ways of managing the Labour Market and training, advising and supporting those in need of such help. It worked for both employers and workers for the best part of 100 years. It has mostly been reduced to a system of punitive rules and benefit denial. Well done Tories. Well Done Britain.

We need some serious reappotioning of blame if we are to recover from this mess.

Mull
 
witchfinder_general said:
Most beggars in the UK are drug addicts, if you give them money your lining the pockets of drug dealers. The beggars are a real blight in my town, such a shame, I wonder why they weren't around when I was a kid, bloody welfare state allows them to idle all day, do a bit of begging then spend it on drugs. I wish they'd all just bloody wither away, they're just like children.
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Seeker_UK said:
When I used to work in That London, one morning a bloke approached me as I was walking into Starbucks for my regular bucket of filter coffee. He told me up front he was a recovering heroin addict and homeless and, whilst he didn't want money, could I please buy him a drink (with lots of sugar). I was more than happy to do that - in my mind it offered a good compromise between helping but not wanting to fund his drug habit.
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Of course not all homeless people are addicts/alcoholics. However I might offer to buy them food or drink if they are begging near a supermarket. Those who pitch themselves next to cash machines, I either ignore or say no to.

I am in recovery and don't give them money, because it will probably be spent on drugs and alcohol. This prolongs their addiction.

The Tory austerity cuts have led to a lot of treatment centres being shut. Councils used to pay for addicts to attend them. The Tories have slashed money given to councils, so they can no longer afford to place addicts in treatment or detox centres.

This is why treatment centres/detoxes have closed and you have so many people begging on the street.

Addicts/alcoholics lead miserable and chaotic lives. The Tories have made their existence much worse. Cnuts.

Jack
 
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Simple way to decrease homelessness in the UK, one of the richest countries on the planet, stop battering the poor into submission, stop removing benefits from those in desperate need, stop spouting bullshit propaganda on social media about those in need being lazy f^ckers who lie in bed all day while the rest of "us" work for a living, this would be a good start, you see, if you prevent the cause, no need to throw millions into treating the symptoms.
 
windhoek said:
An excellent and pointedly witty reply there :)

I guess whether such transactions can be considered exploitation depends on how charitably generous the remunerations are - assuming all remuneration will be better than the going rate as standard: a wee bit better than the going rate might be too close to the bone to avoid allegations of exploitation. Way more than the going rate, however, would surely be beyond reproach.
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But then it becomes clearer still that it's charity, made conditional upon work; or work as charity.
 
Seanm said:
But then it becomes clearer still that it's charity, made conditional upon work; or work as charity.
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Except that there's no up-paid volunteering, just working for (a lot) better than the going rate. Such a transaction would see a person who is homeless do the odd, as yet unspecified job and get paid relatively handsomely. Call it what you will but it's good earning for the person who is homeless and good giving for the person paying :)
 
droodzilla said:
Seriously, what's wrong with just giving them the money?
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Nothing, but If I was homeless I’d spend it on booze...

Am making a big batch of chilli this weekend, to hand out around Manchester, at least I know where it’ll be going, and will be something different than McDonalds and sarnies. :)
 
Yomanze said:
Nothing, but If I was homeless I’d spend it on booze...

Am making a big batch of chilli this weekend, to hand out around Manchester, at least I know where it’ll be going, and will be something different than McDonalds and sarnies. :)
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There is that, but it's a separate debate, in my view. Do you ask the homeless to do odd jobs for you before you give them chilli?
 
Yes, when people ask for money it can be as simple as a simple yes or no - no contract of services rendered for cash is required.
 
My reaction to this thread 'homelessness' was that giving money to beggars often goes straight to drug dealers, most of these beggars aren't even homeless, and they exploit the true homeless by pretending to be them when they beg. Where I live there are so many beggars its horrible. All this crap about universal credit has totally missed the point, and as it happens I believe benefits for those who have earned enough nat. ins. credits should be substantially higher. Benefits for the properly disabled/sick should be higher. But there is exploitation of the sickness benefits system (started by the Tories I believe in the 80s).
In a first world country like ours there is no need to beg. Also the actual homeless do not normally beg, they just suffer in silence, and I have sympathy for them. But my town and many others like London, Oxford, other tourist/seaside towns suffer from high levels of begging, by people who are nothing but long term drug addicts, they're lazy, cynical, and exploit peoples good nature, so carry on with your 'unconditional' giving, your lining the pockets of drug dealers.
 
Seven ways to help rough sleepers

As a former rough sleeper of five years, and chief executive of London homelessness charity, Rhythms of Life, for eight, the question I hear more than any others: What can I do to help rough sleepers?
So I’ve put together a list seven things you can do to help rough sleepers this winter:

Give warm clothes and sleeping bags
Make no mistake, cold weather can be life-threatening if you’re sleeping on the streets each night. So have a look through your wardrobes and lofts for any hats, gloves and coats that you can spare. But don’t just leave a boxful out on the street and assume rough sleepers will get to it donate to your nearest homelessness charity.

Give hot drinks and food
Every other day it seems I get asked: “Should I give rough sleepers money or not?”. The simple answer is there’s no way to know where the money will go after you’ve let it out your sight. But if you want that money to go towards food, then cut out the middle man and buy that person a bite to eat or a hot drink. Soup, tea and coffee are very popular on our food distributions runs at this time of year.

Volunteer
Most people offering front line services such as food and clothing distribution are volunteers. My charity is staffed entirely by volunteers, myself included. There are countless organizations recruiting helpers, so make some time and do your bit, if you can.

Donate
We may all be tightening our belts again, but any amount we can squeeze out of our weekly budgets and donate can make a real difference in the lives of rough sleepers. These days, most distributions are done by recycling surplus food so cash donations of £5, £10 or £20 can be used to keep small charities in business or support a rough sleeper to attend a GP visit or a job interview.

Referral services
Over 60% of rough sleepers are new to the streets according to No Second Night Out. One of the best things anyone can do is refer a rough sleeper to an organization that can help. If you have any concerns about someone sleeping rough then you can contact StreetLink (or download the app!), in England or look up your local agency in other parts of the UK. We recommend that you talk to the person to get their consent, and see if they’re willing to provide their mobile phone number to help outreach coordinators contact them.

Chat!
One of the toughest struggles as a rough sleeper is living with the sense of social isolation and loneliness. So respond to the person in front of you and have a quick chat. Ask them about their day, learn their name and just be prepared to listen and empathize. We especially recommend this if you pass the same rough sleeper during your daily routine. But don’t be too pushy, show the homeless the same respect you would show anyone else.

Make it regular
Whatever you do, don’t just do it once or once a year. Homeless people are sleeping rough every night and organisations such as mine providing help 365 days a year too. Whatever you do, do it again and make a habit out of it. There are no acts of kindness too small to make a difference.

http://www.rhythmsoflife.org.uk/help-rough-sleepers/
 
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Who should replace Paul Dacre as editor of the Daily Mail? You? decide...
 
<moderating>

Right-wing troll idiot banned permanently and thread cleaned up. I realise a lot of folk spent a lot of time responding and that their posts are now gone in the clean-up. My advise is just don’t waste time responding to obvious Daily Mail comments page-grade trolls, this is not a platform for them and they will be removed once the mod team eventually spot them.
 
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