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Greenstreeting my LP12

Could those who wish to discuss the ethics of cloning please start a separate thread and stop trying to derail this one?
 
flatpopely said:
They are intrinsically linked.
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Maybe they are, but really the thread is just about how pleased James is with his new sub-chassis. just like my Naim repair thread was about how happy I was, rather than being a kick Naim in the teeth thread.
 
James said:
What makes the Rubikon more 'original'? It's cut from aluminium, uses exactly the same geometry, and competes with the Keel. It is more ethical because it looks different, even though it does the same thing?
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Andrew and Mark will be best placed to answer, but I think I'm right in saying the Rubikon is different, ie not a Keel copy.
Having the same geometry and 'doing the same thing' aren't factors. If they were, you could argue that all TTs are clones since they all 'do the same thing'.

The sub-chassis design is critical to how a TT sounds.

I see no ethical issue at all with a different sub-chassis design, but I can see one potentially where a product is very nearly a copy.
 
sq225917 said:
Maybe they are, but really the thread is just about how pleased James is with his new sub-chassis. just like my Naim repair thread was about how happy I was, rather than being a kick Naim in the teeth thread.
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And I say again, the GS subchassis sounds superb.

What more do you want me to say.
 
flatpopely said:
They are intrinsically linked.
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No, they are not.

This discussion is about the effects of the GS sub-chassis on an LP12. Not about who GS is, what they did, or whether you think the world should worship at the alter of Linn.
 
James said:
No, they are not.

This discussion is about the effects of the GS sub-chassis on an LP12. Not about who GS is, what they did, or whether you think the world should worship at the alter of Linn.
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James

I think the GS sounds superb for the money, what is your problem with that?

Andrew.
 
I think the thread should be closed. James made some helpful observations about the Greenstreet Klone. Others have dragged it into a debate about the ethics of alleged copies. To be fair to Andrew, he has been entirely objective in his opinion about the GS (despite having a competitor product). No-one has said the GS is poor value for money. Most haven't tried it. I have one. It's fab.

Not much more that usefully be added to be honest I'm not really sure why James wants to continue a different argument either! Just be happy with the GS like me and leave your OP for future posterity.....
 
ex brickie said:
I think the thread should be closed. James made some helpful observations about the Greenstreet Klone. Others have dragged it into a debate about the ethics of alleged copies. To be fair to Andrew, he has been entirely objective in his opinion about the GS (despite having a competitor product). No-one has said the GS is poor value for money. Most haven't tried it. I have one. It's fab.

Not much more that usefully be added to be honest I'm not really sure why James wants to continue a different argument either! Just be happy with the GS like me and leave your OP for future posterity.....
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That is ridiculous to close this thread. The "stakeholders" have made their point about ethics. I would question the ethics of using a manufacturer's forum to peddle your competing products regardless of what permission the moderators of the forum allow.
 
John said:
That is ridiculous to close this thread. The "stakeholders" have made their point about ethics. I would question the ethics of using a manufacturer's forum to peddle your competing products regardless of what permission the moderators of the forum allow.
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If that's aimed at me I take offence. Read the thread again.



Andrew
 
On pricing of the Keel: Many years ago Linn launched the Intek for £500. Not long afterwards they revised the price to £375 iirc. My local dealer offered a credit against Linn stuff for the difference for the early adopters, again iirc. Presumably Linn weren’t selling enough Inteks and had to shift them. I don’t know how many Keels they’ve sold but I think they’ve got the pricing wrong leaving the field open to the several very good (by all accounts) competitors. Priced at a grand or so, they would have sold many more and whipped the rug from under competitors’ feet. I doubt there will be a repeat of the Intek “incident” somehow, however.

As far as the Rubikon goes: My understanding is that the Rubikon is engineered from the ground up whereas the Greenstreet is just a copy of the Keel. Might be wrong there, but as I understand it the high ground is certainly held by the Rubikon.

My own recipe for improving massively the performance of a standard LP12 (1986)/Lingo 1/Ittok LVii:
1) Remove LP12/Lingo. Sell.
2) Put Ittok in a heavy platter Lenco
3) Put the Lenco in a decent plinth (mine cost nothing apart from a few hours’ woodwork)
4) Get an aftermarket bearing (well worth it).
5) Pour a glass of something, listen and grin with surprise
6) Listen to your records sounding better than ever whilst working out to do with the stack of cash the LP12 generated for you.

Worked for me.
 
Nic Robinson said:
As far as the Rubikon goes: My understanding is that the Rubikon is engineered from the ground up whereas the Greenstreet is just a copy of the Keel. Might be wrong there, but as I understand it the high ground is certainly held by the Rubikon.
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That is entirely correct; The RubiKon is developed from first principles and does not copy any other design. The Greenstreet is not an independent design, it is a copy, an attempt to clone an existing design - the Keel (the work of a designer working for Linn). To copy a design in this manner is, in my opinion, beneath contempt and I have no time for those that support such piracy (whatever the excuses they make).

Anyway, As far as I am concerned the matter is closed - I will say no more (rarely do I find hi-fi issues to be black and white, but in this case I do).
 
Surely all the Keel is anyway is a solid sub-chassis made from the smallest piece of alloy that would accommodate all the fixed reference locations and then pocketed in the simplest way to match the weight of the original part as closely as possible. The GS is just an even less inspired version of the same.

I'd say the Keel is an elegantly 'engineered' solution to joining up the dots in the LP12, it's certainly not much of a 'designed' solution, or doesn't appear to be to those familiar with the manufacture and materials options available to them.
 
makes me laugh as a few people make copies of naim cases and designed a subchassis that makes the linn not sound like a linn ....but they have the higher ground !!!! we are talking about the linn hardly a new design when it was originally launched ...much like the circuits that naim amps were based on.....fanboi's get very protective of the 'intellectual' side of the hobby....
i think all the 'products' mentioned have a place to be honest this moral argument is a straw man and not even an original straw man....
 
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