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Change of turntable ahead…

irb said:
Silly me! Imagine thinking I preferred the Sytemdek. I must be "thick".
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All of the evidence appears to indicate that there was little to choose between them at the time. I wonder what the Systemdek 2 sounds like?. Great spacey looks ! Anyone tried one?
 
Del monaco said:
All of the evidence appears to indicate that there was little to choose between them at the time. I wonder what the Systemdek 2 sounds like?. Great spacey looks ! Anyone tried one?
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I've owned them twice - very well judged balance, all round, but not the same resolution as the original Transcription/III. It was Peter Dunlop's budget deck, at the time, but it had real potential - hence why Audio Note pimped and rebranded it later.

Edit: sorry, I was talking about the IIX, not the "biscuit tin" II.
 
Del monaco said:
One thing I’ve noticed. I need to clean some of this vinyl.
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ime, this is where you'll really need to temper expectations - although apologies if you've more than enough experience in this area already.

for myself I've found that very few used records clean up well (to the point of a significant improvement) and, by G**, I've wasted a horrible amount on machines and unguents.
Also, and this is really opening the can/ jumping head-first down the rabbit-hole etc, of late I've started to feel that the 'alcohol-based solutions damage records' creed might have some truth to it.
All along records I've cleaned thus have sounded a bit duller subsequently (while also not improving much in terms of crackle etc!) - or at least the impression has been hard to shake.
Either that - or excessive cleaning pressure (particularly vacuum) damaging the vinyl 'lands' (?), which George Merril (US deck designer) believes.

But recently I've just been using a wet-brush / dry brush approach, with alchohol-based potions, and I've still had that impression of resulting 'dullness'.
Could have been pushing down to hard I guess...

also a horrible time-sink of course.

so, I would suggest sticking to discs that sound pretty good from the get-go, and other than obvious mould and heavy detritus, not worrying too much about cleaning regimes.
I think with most used lps, the worst stuff is due to irreversible groove damage.

YMMV, needless to say.
 
irb said:
Ah! The gaslighting continues. You were there were you?
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You must have met the only unbiased hi-fi dealer on earth then, I've certainly never met one. Even the good ones favor the kit they sell and even certain brands within that range of kit. Even when they appear to be giving you an unbiased dem of two products they typically display bias which will effect your decision. Either deliberately and subconsciously. The fact that you went to a dealer who did not stock Linn and came away with the impression that other turntables were better than Linn is a shock to no one.
 
Mr Pig said:
... The fact that you went to a dealer who did not stock Linn and came away with the impression that other turntables were better than Linn is a shock to no one.
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They had a used Linn in stock. The Systemdek was used too, actually. They were both for sale. They would have been perfectly happy to sell me either one.

The fact that I can't, 40 odd years later, say that I preferred something else over the Linn, without being told by someone who wasn't there that the demo was rigged, says it all.

You couldn't make it up!

Anyway, enough for today. I'm going to flounce/stop feeding the troll (pick your preferred option).
 
Del monaco said:
All of the evidence appears to indicate that there was little to choose between them at the time. I wonder what the Systemdek 2 sounds like?. Great spacey looks ! Anyone tried one?
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The 'biscuit tin' sounds ok but nothing special. Looks trick but sounds ordinary and is a pain to use. The arm hangs in mid air with nowhere to rest your hand. Add the very soft springs and manual cuing is not pleasant. Sell for more than they are worth in my opinion.

The XII is a really nice deck and great value these days. At the time it was priced in between a Rega and the Linn and that's a fair reflection of where it stands. You're not getting the scale, power and weight of the LP12 but it does have some of that flow and rhythm the Linn is famous for. It's also very simple so a safe used buy and Audio Note keeping it alive means some spares should you need them. They typically sell for between £200 and £300 so a clean one is a bargain and a useful if slight step up from an older Planer3 sonically.
 
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Mr Pig said:
The 'biscuit tin' sounds ok but nothing special. Looks trick but sounds ordinary and is a pain to use. The arm hangs in mid air with nowhere to rest you hand. Add the very soft springs and manual cuing is not pleasant. Sell for more than they are worth in my opinion.

The XII is a really nice deck and great value these days. At the time it was priced in between a Rega and the Linn and that's a fair reflection of where it stands. You're not getting the scale, power and weight of the LP12 but it does have some of that flow and rhythm the Linn is famous for. It's also very simple so a safe used buy and Audio Note keeping it alive means some spares should you need them. They typically sell for between £200 and £300 so a clean one is a bargain and a useful if slight step up from an older Planer3 sonically.
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Nice recommendation!
 
Flow is something that is very apparent on the Systemdek. The sound is good in all phases and there’s no hyper focus in either the bass, mid of higher. This can often lead to imbalance which makes for distracting listening. It often gets in the way of flow.
 
irb said:
My point was that they didn't recommend one over the other. They gave me a demo and let me choose.

Unlike Linn dealers, whose entire stance was that Linn was best, and anyone who couldn't see thst was an idiot. Gaslighting, basically.

(If you want to know how it was that this approach came to be so prevalent with Linn products, just read any of the interviews with Ivor Tiefenbrun - there are plenty online - and you'll work it out.)

(PS, it wasnt only in hifi that he was convinced he knew better than everyone else. This is the man who once had to resign as a Tory candidate because he said that Scots were "thick" to hate Thatcher.)
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This is nonsense.

Dealers want kit they can sell & service with good parts back up etc. Linn have always been good at this. You can, of course, criticise how much they cost but this is a pretty recent phenomenon. When I bought my LP12 it was 2nd hand & around £1200, it was a logical next step from a Rega.

Yes, I’ve upgraded it but it’s been the same spec for 20 years.

Rega are very good at marketing their products also.

I think people who like to upgrade & tinker will always find a way to do so.

The idea that Linn are some massive powerful company is rubbish, they are tiny compared the big Japanese firms who really spend on marketing etc.
 
Mr Pig said:
You must have met the only unbiased hi-fi dealer on earth then, I've certainly never met one. Even the good ones favor the kit they sell and even certain brands within that range of kit. Even when they appear to be giving you an unbiased dem of two products they typically display bias which will effect your decision. Either deliberately and subconsciously. The fact that you went to a dealer who did not stock Linn and came away with the impression that other turntables were better than Linn is a shock to no one.
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Exactly this. There were always dealers who carried Mitchell & SME, it’s not always a choice either brands will have a say in who stocks what.
 
I still think the IIX was significantly better than an '80s Planar 3. A modern P3 is a different matter, but I'd still expect a IIX in good shape to hold its own, if you put an RB330 on it. The III is one of the most underestimated '80s decks, I think. I didn't find my SME V worked particularly well on it, but they can sound very good with the Mission 774, and with Rega arms.
 
Toaster said:
I still think the IIX was significantly better than an '80s Planar 3. A modern P3 is a different matter, but I'd still expect a IIX in good shape to hold its own, if you put an RB330 on it.
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Yeah, it's noticeably better but it's not a huge jump. Most of them shipped with Linn Basiks or a similar Systemdek arm and they sound fine on them. A Rega arm is better though.
 
Think I’ll resurrect my Disco Antistat this morning. Maybe push a few through. I’ve a space for an RCM but they are a little costly so I’ll build up my funds perhaps and live with the combination for a time to see what I can eke out. Whatever, it’s making nice sounds at this time that are thoroughly satisfying. Listening to some lovely Vaughan Williams morning conducted by the late, great Vernon Handley. It’s a real test for a good TT as it’s a huge wash of sound that can sound sludgy on lesser players. This table is handling the breadth and textures of the mass sounds very well, without becoming overwhelmed.On my previous players the sound would become fraught and constricted.
 
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The Disco Antistatic does a great job for the money, just don't use the supplied cleaning fluid, better to make some up yourself or buy recommended solutions which can be found on past threads on here.
 
Salamander said:
The Disco Antistatic does a great job for the money, just don't use the supplied cleaning fluid, better to make some up yourself or buy recommended solutions which can be found on past threads on here.
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I bought a couple of bottles of some recommended fluid a while ago so I’ll use them. I need some filter papers though.
 
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