Will the rise of streaming put more tasty disc spinners onto the s/h mkt in 2011?

[Greg]

Back to the OPs question: I am not sure there is "rise in streaming", apart from a few geeks and vendors like Purite pushing it on here I don't actually see many mainstream users adopting streaming at all. I would venture a bet that streaming will die before CDPs do.

I think quite the opposite. Most young folks wouldn't know what to do with a CD player and inevitably they will want to listen to their music and it will be file/ipod based or internet streamed. It's a natural progression that some of these folks will want better quality playback systems.

...similar to vinyl, lots/many/some people with CDs will probably carry on using a CD player ongoing, however, unlike vinyl: 1) CDs are very easily converted to files whilst maintaining fidelity with the original; and 2) if a laser, or draw mech breaks, it's a pain to fix and they will be even more inclined to not bother and convert their CDs to files to listen to on the kompewter that they already own.

 

[jackbarron]

A few months ago, I listened to some music on the new Audiolab 8200CDQ.

First some tunes were put on the CD player.

They were then played as digital files from a laptop via the CDQ's DAC.

The DAC tracks were excellent, although very slightly different in sound to the CD tunes.

The listening session lasted half an hour and John W kindly used the time to demonstrate the capabilities of the CDQ.

I think I preferred it when the CD player was being used, but it was a close call.

I look forward to comparing the two again.

I plan to keep a CD player and a DAC.

At the moment I have got a Naim CD player and a Beresford DAC. I expect this will change.

Jack

 

[positive_energy]

There are a hell of a lot of people who stream music from their computers as a matter of course, and wouldn't know the name of one audiophile website.

Streaming means over a (telecommunications) network. When you playback from you computer its not necessarily streaming. There has to be some sort of network/protocol in place. A PC connected to a DAC connected to speakers is not streaming.

Streaming is a bag of pain.

 

[Greg]

Streaming means over telecommunications networks. When you playback from you computer it is not streaming.

is that point worth making, really?

It's not CD playback is it so "streaming" or "computer-based" is a decent way of describing the difference in terms of the broader formats, surely.

Our of interest, what would your own catchy word/phrase be? (or would you really sub-divide network streamed apart from directly connected)?

 

[stu pitt]

How about Linn? They could make money selling CDPs and streamers but have decided to abandon CDPs, at least the high end ones.

I'd be willing to bet a good sum of money that Linn abandoned CDPs due to them getting tired of sourcing the lasers from other companies. Companies change manufacturing of these things very often. Relatively speaking, Linn (and a lot of other hifi specialist manufacturers) buys so few of them that they don't care if Linn has to redesign a CDP due to the laser no longer being manufactured. Combine that with warrantying their CDPs and having customers complain that their multi thousand dollar CDP can't be fixed after a few years because someone like Sanyo no longer makes the part needed, and it makes me think when anyone else hasn't got out of the CDP business too.

Add to that that Linn makes a decent penny selling downloads from their label. Maybe they feel if their customers abandon the CDPs, they'll sell more high-res downloads.

At the end of the day, it's most likely more of a business decision that a best sound quality decision IMO.



Changing gears a bit...

Can't fully comprehend either side of the streaming vs CDP arguement. Saying streaming is far better than a CDP is absurd. I've heard excellent examples of both, without one being superior to another in every way nor every time. There are a ton of great CDPs out there, and there are a ton of great DACs out there. In my experience, its not the type of component, it's how it's implemented so to speak. A great CDP will bury a cheap DAC, and a great DAC will bury a cheap CDP. Everything being equal, I haven't heard one consistantly beating the other. Same can be said for any other technology - valves vs SS, class A vs A/B vs D, vinyl vs digital, etc.

Saying that you have to abandon your physical media if you stream is equally, or perhaps more absurd. You can have it both ways. I bought a gen 1 Apple TV and a stop gap DAC (Theta Cobalt 307). Everything is ripped as Apple Lossless and just about everything is synched to the Apple TV's HDD. Doesn't mean I had to nor wanted to get rid of my CDs. I still enjoy buying CDs and having the physical media and stuff that goes with it. I rip my CDs, check out everything it came with, then put it in a box in the basement when it starts to collect dust. If I want the liner notes, I have easy access to it.

Just because you stream your music doesn't mean you need to get rid of your media and/or download all your music. Can't figure out why people have a difficult time comprehending that one.

 

[positive_energy]

For most people plugging and iPod into an ipod dock/speaker is about as far as it goes. iPod speakers outsell everything else by a very large margin.

I doubt the predominance of iPod speakers will have an effect on high end SH CDPs.

 

[wiresandmore]

Ditched my CDX2 for an Akurate DS just over two years ago. Yes, it was a bit of a pain to set up and the interface was very clunky in the early days of Kinsky but I've never looked back. Sounds better and is more convenient. And then you add the ability to play 24/96 into the mix. Stunning stuff. Best thing I did in 20+ years of hifi dabbling.

I'm sure you will get good CD players for cheap prices in the very near future. But they will be cheaper again after that!

Good luck

Richard

 

[TheDecameron]

I can't help thinking that streaming in its current form is just another means of presenting the same information yet again, without adding any value in particular.

for me the added value would be in simple convenience but as Mick said, if you have a top notch cdp and a lot of discs the likliehood of abandoning them is low

 

[Basil]

I'm sure you will get good CD players for cheap prices in the very near future. But they will be cheaper again after that!

And even cheaper when the laser diode wears out!

 

[TheDecameron]

Back to the OPs question: I am not sure there is "rise in streaming", apart from a few geeks and vendors like Purite pushing it on here I don't actually see many mainstream users adopting streaming at all. I would venture a bet that streaming will die before CDPs do.

dunno, Linn have made a level headed business decision that its better to launch products into a growing market rather than a declining one.

 

[stu pitt]

I think the price of second hand CDPs will drop. The market will get more and more flooded as more and more people sell off their CDPs for DACs. The supply and demand graph at work.

I also think lower end CDPs will eventually vanish. I don't think the high end ones will for a very long time. It'll be more of a specialist market within a specialist market. Kind of like turntables until recently. However, I highly doubt CDPs will become cool again to people outside of hifi as turntables and vinyl did. Relative to vinyl, CDs aren't all that special and not nearly as appealing as vinyl albums are in this regard IMO.

 

[wiresandmore]

Changing gears a bit...

Can't fully comprehend either side of the streaming vs CDP arguement. Saying streaming is far better than a CDP is absurd. I've heard excellent examples of both, without one being superior to another in every way nor every time. There are a ton of great CDPs out there, and there are a ton of great DACs out there. In my experience, its not the type of component, it's how it's implemented so to speak. A great CDP will bury a cheap DAC, and a great DAC will bury a cheap CDP. Everything being equal, I haven't heard one consistantly beating the other. Same can be said for any other technology - valves vs SS, class A vs A/B vs D, vinyl vs digital, etc.

Saying that you have to abandon your physical media if you stream is equally, or perhaps more absurd. You can have it both ways. I bought a gen 1 Apple TV and a stop gap DAC (Theta Cobalt 307). Everything is ripped as Apple Lossless and just about everything is synched to the Apple TV's HDD. Doesn't mean I had to nor wanted to get rid of my CDs. I still enjoy buying CDs and having the physical media and stuff that goes with it. I rip my CDs, check out everything it came with, then put it in a box in the basement when it starts to collect dust. If I want the liner notes, I have easy access to it.

Just because you stream your music doesn't mean you need to get rid of your media and/or download all your music. Can't figure out why people have a difficult time comprehending that one.

On the first point, I did (extensively) listen to my CDX2 vs. the Akurate DS and I thought the DS was much better. It's about what you get at a specific price point. They were in the same ballpark at the time, so it was a pretty fair comparison and the DS strolled it. The CDX2 is a great CD player of course and I know that you could get a long lifetime of musical enjoyment from it, but when you add the hi-res options, emerging hidef internet radio, convenience of the whole of your library on tap and the likelihood of Spotify etc. coming soon, it really is a very simple decision to move to DS (or NDX or whatever....)

Agree with you on the last points - I still buy physical media, they just go straight to the PC via dbpoweramp then are filed away as a "backup"

 

[stu pitt]

Back to the OPs question: I am not sure there is "rise in streaming", apart from a few geeks and vendors like Purite pushing it on here I don't actually see many mainstream users adopting streaming at all. I would venture a bet that streaming will die before CDPs do.

And apart from a few geeks like us, there are very few people buying CD players any more. Working at a college and having a CDP boom box in my office/room where students are welcome to bring in their music, I haven't seen a CD in at least 5 years. More like 7. I've asked a number of them just to guage the CD market, and I always get 'No one listens to CDs anymore.' 'I don't own any CDs.' Even my parents who love music but aren't hifi people by any means abandoned CD players. They ripped all their CDs to iTunes and use iPods. In the house, in the car, and on the go. I haven't asked where their CDs are though. So it's not just college students and younger kids.

If the mass market abandons CD players for good, the laser manufacturers will abandon making them too. No lasers from them means the hifi manufacturers will have to make their own. Very costly on a very low scale. Someone will, and the CDPs will have to be very expensive, eliminating the budget sector of CDPs.

Or they'll all use universal lasers, which many people believe they don't sound as good as CD only lasers.

 

[positive_energy]

I have never ever come across someone with a failed CD laser. Yet it is mentioned time and time again in arguments to support DAC sales...

 

[wiresandmore]

Back to the OPs question: I am not sure there is "rise in streaming", apart from a few geeks and vendors like Purite pushing it on here I don't actually see many mainstream users adopting streaming at all. I would venture a bet that streaming will die before CDPs do.

Well, Sonos is one of the hottest consumer audio products out there at the moment....and it's a pure streamer (very well packaged as a consumer device) and Slim/Logitech have sold bucketloads of squeezeboxes. So I think it is far more mainstream than you imagine.

I've had lots of conversations recently with "normal" (i.e. non audiophile types) who now have a huge collection of MP3 files and want to be able to play them through their hifi without using iPods etc ("can I have a remote control to access all my music") - that's exactly where the future will lie.

Good luck

Richard

 

[Basil]

I have never ever come across someone with a failed CD laser. Yet it is mentioned time and time again in arguments to support DAC sales...

Really?

I've had a couple go over the years.

 

[jackbarron]

I gave all my relatives a CD each for Xmas, except for those who got a DVD instead.

I haven't heard any complaints yet.

Jack

 

[prowla]

Well, I like my CD players, and I like my computer-based audio too. Each has its advantages and disadvantages, but I don' see it as an either/or question.

 

[jackbarron]

Blimey, I agree with you. That's a rarity.

Jack

 

[Greg]

For most people plugging and iPod into an ipod dock/speaker is about as far as it goes. iPod speakers outsell everything else by a very large margin.

I doubt the predominance of iPod speakers will have an effect on high end SH CDPs.

I think you're hopes and being expressed as belief.